D&D 5E My Swordmage Homebrew, Any thoughts On It?

[cbwjm]

One thing of note is the elemental blade doesn't need to specify the damage being nonmagical, 5e doesn't have that distinction, fire damage is just fire damage.

 

[CreamCloud0]

One thing of note is the elemental blade doesn't need to specify the damage being nonmagical, 5e doesn't have that distinction, fire damage is just fire damage.

Fair, but i wanted to make it clear that they weren't dealing any form of magic damage with it at level 1 and a little redundancy doesn't hurt, so they'd either needing to use spellstrike or the later level magic blade upgrade to be dealing magic damage as standard with it.

 

[NotAYakk]

I'd start with 4 fighting styles. The weapons you fight with should be core to the SWORDmage identity.

• Sword + Board + Armor
• Sword + Hand
• Two Sword (TWF)
• Big Sword (two handed)

As this changes what your armor and gear is, it has to be a pick at level 1.

As 4e Aegis are honestly cool, I might wire them into the above; maybe which fighting style you have determines what aegis you get.

A second "subclass" could be added around level 3, like the warlock pact/patron split, if we wanted more theme-based subclasses.

Full caster is tempting, but only if we can work out what a 9th level swordmage spell looks like.

9th: Blade of Disaster, Foresight, Invulnerability, maybe Wierd, Astral Projection and Time Stop?
8th: Mind Blank, Power Word: Stun, Sunburst, Telepathy, Antimagic Field?
7th: Crown of Stars, Etherealness, Draconic Transformation, Regenerate, Arcane Sword?

lower level spells are easier to envision as swordmage magic.

 

[TwoSix]

Eh my favorite take on a Swordmage type vlass, was the Warmage from Valdas spire of secrets.

Where they gave it something unique from every other class in 5e by making it a Cantrip only caster, that uses weapon focused cantrips, and has subclasses that broaden it

Agreed. People jump on the half-caster concept for it because there's no arcane corollary to the paladin, but I don't think half-casting is necessary to get the feel of the 4e swordmage or PF magus. I don't think half-caster is the wrong approach, I just think other ideas are also valid.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Heck, I've already homebrewed a Fighting Style that grants 2 Wizard cantrips a la Druidic Warrior and Sacred Warrior (Arcane Warrior). Not sure if Mage Armour + cantrip is balanced against other fighting styles, though. Maybe just Mage Armour alone or 2 cantrips alone?

I'd do an arcane defense and 1 wizard cantrip. the arcane defense would be unarmored defense with intelligence. It's balanced with the best fighting styles, IMO, and the worse FS options need a boost anyway.

edit: I say wizard cantrip only because the scag cantrips exist, but honestly even then, they don't work with the fighter's core features, which makes it still subpar.

Now, give an unarmored defense calculation and the ability to make your weapon attacks with a single weapon magical, and IMO you've really got something. Rather than trying to match the Bladesinger at level 7 for the EK, I'd give them the ability to choose a damage type and add proficiency bonus damage of that type to all weapon attacks with their bonded weapon. That, or let them cast a cantrip as a bonus action when they use the attack action, rather than the other way around.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Fair, but i wanted to make it clear that they weren't dealing any form of magic damage with it at level 1 and a little redundancy doesn't hurt, so they'd either needing to use spellstrike or the later level magic blade upgrade to be dealing magic damage as standard with it.

IMO doing magical damage at level 1 is absolutely necessary to even bothering with a swordmage class. The blaster warlock doesn't have any disadvantage against fiends, why should the swordmage?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

One pro about using artificer as a base, is that their subclasses are extremely strong next to their base class early on. You have 5 or 6 subclass features up until level 9, including the level 5 one which is a huge chunk of your power. Additionally, the level 3 features change how they play a huge amount. A hexblood alchemist can play as a healer/witch type character, slinging spells from the backline. Meanwhile a dwarf battlesmith is in front line combat fighting side by side with an animated golem with multiple weapon strikes.

There is less to offer in the later levels, but getting to tier 3 is so rare almost no one does.

A theoretical swordmage subclass under artificer could offer a crazy amount more than something such as the eldritch knight or bladesinger. Both of which get almost all their power from their main class, leaving their subclass as an insignificant part of their power budget and abilities. Meanwhile an artificer swordmage subclass could be given things like spellstrike, teleports, and a list of automatically learnt spells which actually suit it, without having to worry as much about the base class being too overwhelming.

I still think that a dedicated swordmage class would be better. But if I had to pick a place to put it as a subclass, artificer would be the place to be. However WotC 'won't' make a swordmage themed artificer, as each subclasses theme is about 'making' something. Therefore a generic swordmage doesn't fit that theme.

I think that imbuing magic into weapons is perfectly fine for an artificer, especially if it also comes with the idea that you have forged your weapon, and the weapon has a a special name and special rules, and something cool you can do with it as a bonus action.

It doesn't, for me, satisfy what I want from a swordmage class, but combine it with some new infusions that support swordmaging, and it's definitely a cool gish concept.

 

[CreamCloud0]

IMO doing magical damage at level 1 is absolutely necessary to even bothering with a swordmage class. The blaster warlock doesn't have any disadvantage against fiends, why should the swordmage?

the warlock is a full caster though whereas i designed swordmage as half, they only go without magic for a single level's worth of adventuring, though i do see where you're coming from so if then the elemental blade feature was made to deal inherently magical damage from the word go incorporating the later magic blade upgrade what then would you put as the 8th level boon to their abilities?
Personally my first inclination is to add force, divine and necrotic damage types to their repetoir for use with elemental blade [without relying on a spell for the damage type].

 

[doctorbadwolf]

the warlock is a full caster though whereas i designed swordmage as half, they only go without magic for a single level's worth of adventuring, though i do see where you're coming from so if then the elemental blade feature was made to deal inherently magical damage from the word go incorporating the later magic blade upgrade what then would you put as the 8th level boon to their abilities?
Personally my first inclination is to add force, divine and necrotic damage types to their repetoir for use with elemental blade [without relying on a spell for the damage type].

Yeah level 1 I’d put just magical damage types, no extra damage. Or, a choice between (1) a defense buff (2) extra damage and (3) tank/protect others buff.

Then level 2 or 3, get the core damage buff of the base class, level 5 extra attack, level 6-8 proficiency bonus magical damage, unlock force damage as an option, something like that.

What I’m looking at for my own take on the idea is that level 1 has a Mark ability tied to your Aegis. You then get the ability to put extra power into the mark for extra damage or protection. But that level 1 mark, I’m thinking can provide a “fighting style” type choice that focuses how you approach combat on a basic level, ie offense focused, defense, mobility, or protection/punishment.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Yeah level 1 I’d put just magical damage types, no extra damage. Or, a choice between (1) a defense buff (2) extra damage and (3) tank/protect others buff.

i think i'll jsut add the magic damage at first, the three subclasses at 3rd kinda cover that latter bit in my swordmage design, Bladesmith is meant to be a skill/versatility build with extra spells and maneuvers, Rune Knight is meant to be more reliable and defensive having access to better weapons and armor and defensive abilities, then Arcane Sniper subclass is the ranged option

Then level 2 or 3, get the core damage buff of the base class, level 5 extra attack, level 6-8 proficiency bonus magical damage, unlock force damage as an option, something like that.

do you think it would be better progression to move forward the level 14 affinity resistance ability to 8th and put natural force/divine/necrotic damage access at 14th instead?

What I’m looking at for my own take on the idea is that level 1 has a Mark ability tied to your Aegis. You then get the ability to put extra power into the mark for extra damage or protection. But that level 1 mark, I’m thinking can provide a “fighting style” type choice that focuses how you approach combat on a basic level, ie offense focused, defense, mobility, or protection/punishment.

that does sound interesting having their mark include other effects beyond a pure damage bonus like the ranger's or warlock's, personally i wouldn't put it at 1st let them play with it just for a level or two before needing to choose what to specialise in, i'm not someone who wants to decide all the choices for my character as soon as possible, as an aside i don't actually know what an aegis is/does, i've seen it referred to a few times and from context it seems to be an ability from a previous edition but i have no idea what it's actual effect is.