My take.

[Darkthorne]

Heaven
The example I was using above is not my POV but what I see as other people's pov that debate 3.5 was/is more realistic in it's approach. I like how 4th ed scales it spells (curative in this line of inquiry) so at higher levels the low level effects at not almost ineffectual at best.
Thanks

 

[Loincloth of Armour]

Personally my problem is not so much with the 6 hours rest but with the spontaneous self healing and especially with the "being cut down by an enemy but then standing up again with 25% health".

Which is why I will never play at your table, and you will never play at mine.

Spontaneous self healing? Dude, that allows me to do crazy things and not be apron-tied to the cleric.

As for the "being cut down by an enemy but then standing again," let me tell you about my game on Saturday...

That session we agreed to use the 4e death and dying rule. During the fight, the dwarven fighter, who was mounted on a riding horse, crited the hobgoblin leader and took him down. In return, the hobo's twin soldiers rolled a 19 and a 20 to hit and reduced the dwarf to -6. Since his mount was a riding horse --not a warhorse-- with no one to control it the thing spooked and bolted away from combat. This carried the unconsicous, bleeding dwarf away from the cleric.

2 rounds of rolls later, the player of the dwarf rolled his save... and it came up a natural 20! The cheering around the table was heartfelt and joyous! 2 more rounds of hard riding and the dwarf was back in the fight, riding down opponents and helping the party mount up and flee before hobgoblin reinforcements arrived.

Under 3.5 rules, because the dwarf was nowhere near a cleric he would have had about 4 rounds to roll a 10% check or be dead, and even if he did stablize the player was still out of the fight.

Here, he managed to make a spectacular recovery and a triumphant ride back into the fray to help save the party. We had a great time, and the players actually cheered when the player made the roll.

The player of the dwarf actually e-mailed me after and said the new rules made a tough fight into something he will truly remember.

And that is why I support our new 4e overlords.

 

[Fifth Element]

Here, he managed to make a spectacular recovery and a triumphant ride back into the fray to help save the party. We had a great time, and the players actually cheered when the player made the roll.

The first session we used the 4E rules, the party was involved in a pitched battle with a large group of foes. The centaur TWF ranger went down and it was looking grim, with the party outnumbered and bleeding. One natural 20 later, elation filled the room as the centaur rose to his feet with a blade in each hand and proceeded to cut a swath through the enemy. A possible TPK turned into a genuinely exciting moment. One of the better changes for 4E, I'd say.

 

[Lizard]

I've also noticed that a lot of players sort of seem to behave as if each and every minute of game-time must be filled with adventuring. If I were to say, "you all take a month to relax and recuperate from your wounds. Let's take ten minutes to role-play anything interesting that people want to do that doesn't involve adventuring." I hunch some of them would act as if I were stealing levels from them or something.

Whereas, I have been criticized by my players for not doing mountains of blue-booking between each session covering each and every minute of downtime.

I recently tried an experiment: I told them "You are going to start your next adventure HERE. You are currently THERE. It's a three month trip across hostile terrain; here's some of the known points of interest. If you write a short story -- a page at least -- detailing one adventure you had en route, you get half the XP needed to move you to your next level and a level-appropriate magic item of my choice."

This way, they get to define something of their non-combat time and get material rewards, and I don't have to do .

I can also be sure anytime they enter a town, at least an entire game session will go by with them running hither and yon meeting every NPC in the place, each according to their own personal interests -- the Oath Of Poverty druid will be looking for oppressed people, the warforged tinkerer will be looking to fix things, the bard will be looking to get laid, etc. I basically need nothing but a bunch of NPCs and agendas, no real 'adventure' at all.

 

[PoeticJustice]

I recently tried an experiment: I told them "You are going to start your next adventure HERE. You are currently THERE. It's a three month trip across hostile terrain; here's some of the known points of interest. If you write a short story -- a page at least -- detailing one adventure you had en route, you get half the XP needed to move you to your next level and a level-appropriate magic item of my choice."

How many takers did you get on this offer, out of curiosity?

 

[Lizard]

How many takers did you get on this offer, out of curiosity?

Three out of five players.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'm the obverse-Mulder ... I want to suspend my disbelief. But the game system, or movie, or comic book, or whatever needs to give me a reason -- damned near any reason -- to do it. And from what we've seen of 4E so far, the game designers just don't care about people like me.

Hahaha, I like that.

And +1.

 

[hong]

I'm the obverse-Mulder ... I want to suspend my disbelief. But the game system, or movie, or comic book, or whatever needs to give me a reason -- damned near any reason -- to do it. And from what we've seen of 4E so far, the game designers just don't care about people like me.

Come back to rgfd, Jeff! We care!

 

[Hussar]

And you can do that with a particular character in 3E now if you want to build him that way. But the idea that it is assumed for all wizards rubs completely contrary to the kind of fantasy I enjoy.

The problem is BryonD, 3e actively penalizes you if you try to do that. Climb, for a simple example, is a cross class skill for wizard. So, he has to burn 2 ranks each time. Say he's got an 18 Int, so, he's burning almost half his ranks every level just to be able to climb. Now, he still can't do anything else, like stand on the deck of a heaving ship (balance), tie a knot (use rope) or any of the truly useful skills like Spot or Search.

It's a zero sum game and he's being penalized heavily if he goes against it. Considering that DC's almost always scale by level, unless you keep a skill maxed, you might as well not bother. It's too expensive to keep skills maxed that are cross class, and there are far too many skills to even have a minor chance of success.

Look at what a wizard is pretty much expected to know:

Spellcraft
Concentration
at least 1 Knowledge skill

Already he's over his skill limits per level. How can he possibly afford to keep up other skills to the point where they will actually work?

 

[Ourph]

I recently tried an experiment: I told them "You are going to start your next adventure HERE. You are currently THERE. It's a three month trip across hostile terrain; here's some of the known points of interest. If you write a short story -- a page at least -- detailing one adventure you had en route, you get half the XP needed to move you to your next level and a level-appropriate magic item of my choice."

This way, they get to define something of their non-combat time and get material rewards, and I don't have to do .

I love stealing ideas that let me improve my game while not doing . Yoink!