Mystic Theurge and Precocious Apprentice

[B4cchus]

you forgot to mention Tobin's 1337 trapfinding ability!

Anyways, "Yay" and "Woot" for allowing the build. Now i just need the feedback on that Priest class from unorthodox clerics

 

[mikebr99]

Personally... the DC 8 caster level check to successfully cast the spell each day, is reason enough to not allow it as a faster way into the PrC.

You need to be able to cast a 2nd level spell all the time in my books.. YMMV

Mike

 

[B4cchus]

I'd say you are able to cast the spell, albeit not always, but that goes for every arcane spell.

There are many circumstances which can falter your spellcasting like concentration checks when attacked, arcane spell failure etc.
By your ruling someone with a 100% arc. spell failure wouldn't apply for MT.

 

[mikebr99]

I'd say you are able to cast the spell, albeit not always, but that goes for every arcane spell.

There are many circumstances which can falter your spellcasting like concentration checks when attacked, arcane spell failure etc.
By your ruling someone with a 100% arc. spell failure wouldn't apply for MT.

Sure... but remove the extraneous circumstances, and every 3rd level Wizard has no chance of failure... where as your 1st level Wizard (w/Precocious Apprentice Feat) would fail the casting on a 1 through 6 on a d20.

But your DM has already agreed... so good luck!

It just wouldn't fly in my game...


Mike

 

[Scion]

Not really...

But of course my example was self contained, it would seem that my example itself was comprehesive of the effects that were there for that level, or pretty close. Hence the question.

I'll edit in (this) anything I see wrong.

Clr 10 vs wiz 1/clr3/mt5 (mt6 I am guessing)
10d8 (avg 48) vs 3d8+7d4 (avg 34) (48.5 vs 32.5, I am not sure what method you are useing but I am useing full at first and half max from then on, which is the average for rolling. For LivingG I believe they use half max +1 so it would be 53 vs 37, so 16 hp difference either way)
5th level cleric spells vs 5th level cleric spells
no wizard spells vs 4th level wizard spells
caster level 10 for cleric spells vs caster level 9 for cleric spells
no arcane caster level vs caster level 7 for arcane spells
F +7, R +3, W +7 vs F +4, R +2, W +9 (I believe this will be F +7, R +3, W +7 vs F +5, R +3, W +9 )
BAB +7 vs +5
able to cast all spells in armor vs arcane spell failure for some arcane spells
10th level turning vs 3rd level turning
1 primary stat (wis) vs 2 primary stats (int and wis)
no familiar vs familiar
no Scribe Scroll vs Scribe Scroll
no feats spent vs 1 feat spent

I suppose there is also the matter of spells per day which I didnt feel was necissary in the other because of the access to 5th vs no access to 5th, but here..

Divine: 0th:6, 1st:4+1, 2nd:4+1, 3rd:3+1, 4th:3+1, 5th:2+1 vs Divine: 0th:6, 1st:4+1, 2nd:4+1, 3rd:3+1, 4th:2+1, 5th:1+1 and 0th:4, 1st:4, 2nd:3, 3rd:2, 4th:1

So a loss of 1 5th to gain 2 3rd, 3 2nd, 4 1st, 4 0th total spells.


Given some of the differences I'd have to say that a lot of this comes down to personal choice of what sort of character you would like to play instead of a lot of power. Having a continual higher amount of hp instead of having to use spells to boost it can be helpful, having 3 higher points in BAB (and an extra iterative attack from that) is also very nice.

Not having to be a wizard at first level is also a boon that some like to take advantage of as well

Maybe it is too much, but the mystic theurge as written is a bit weak. It is very hard to make a middle ground apparently!


Anyone want to do a level 10 MT writeup? Oh, and then one two levels beyond level 10 MT

 

[Scion]

Sure... but remove the extraneous circumstances, and every 3rd level Wizard has no chance of failure...

Warforged..

 

[Thanee]

I'll edit in (this) anything I see wrong.

Yeah, oops, of course MT6, used that for the calculations, tho, only forgot to write it down.

You should check your math on calculating averages, the average on a d4 is 2.5 or (in D&D terms) 2 and 3 alternating, for example. That's how monster hp are calculated and that's how the hp I wrote up there came along, too. Half the HD is below average.

Besides, if you used half the HD, then the clr9 should have 40 not 44 hp.

Not having to be a wizard at first level is also a boon that some like to take advantage of as well

Well, both start out as cleric, of course.

Maybe it is too much, but the mystic theurge as written is a bit weak. It is very hard to make a middle ground apparently!

Yep, they are pretty weak in the middle levels and pretty strong in the high levels, but the feat adds to both, making them pretty strong in the middle levels and too strong in the high levels.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

Personally... the DC 8 caster level check to successfully cast the spell each day, is reason enough to not allow it as a faster way into the PrC.

You need to be able to cast a 2nd level spell all the time in my books.. YMMV

So if he has the Arcane Mastery feat from CArc, allowing him to Take 10 on Caster Level checks, he can cast a 2nd level spell all the time, right?

More reliably than the sorcerer in leather armor?

-Hyp.

 

[Cheiromancer]

@mikebr99: There is a silly rule in CW that says that if you stop meeting the prerequisite for a prestige class, you lose all class features and special abilities from that class (page 16). Requiring a 100% success rate to cast a 2nd level spell would mean that a MT loses most of their powers if they needed to make a concentration check to cast a spell, and the DC was such that they only had a 95% chance of success.

I don't like the CW16 rule, but it has an especially bad interaction with your interpretation of the rules for prerequisites.

 

[IndyPendant]

Incoming thread hijack!

So if he has the Arcane Mastery feat from CArc, allowing him to Take 10 on Caster Level checks, he can cast a 2nd level spell all the time, right?

More reliably than the sorcerer in leather armor?

-Hyp.

So, from the SRD:

Taking 10: When your character is not being threatened or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure —you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn’t help.

So doesn't this mean that the character can only Take 10 on CL checks outside of combat? And if so--how is this worth a feat, exactly? The number of situations where such an ability would come in handy seem very few and far between...

Or am I missing something?