Marshall said:
The Bard is first and foremost the "Faceman" class, see the high skill points and the long list of social skills and the abilities realated to controlling crowd reactions. That he can also act as the Party Buffer is a nice +. So can the CLR, you dont claim he's primarily a buff-master. So can the WIZ for that matter.
The bard has abilities which are
only of use for supporting allies. The cleric has an ability (spellcasting) which
can be used for supporting theparty, but
could instead be used for other purposes.
And Rogues get
more skill points, and have a similar access to social skils, to boot.
Thats nice. Irrelevant, but nice.
Hardly. It's illustrative of how well bards can support other characters - primarily by using their inherent, "I don't have these because I chose to"
default class abilities.
No, but the Theurge has the OPTION to try to do that. He wont succeed, but he can try.
And fail miserably, in any game run by a GM who cares about - or even KNOWS about -
game balance. Which is a concept
you are obviously
not conversant with.
Not likely. And you cant afford ESR and its one of the prime examples of how broken the the Epic Spell system is. They'd have been better off just making 10th level+ spells, the Wish excuse doesnt fly anymore.
Who says I couldn't afford ESR? If you're an Abjuration specialist, that makes it -5DC lower (and thus cheaper by 45,000gp and 1,800XP). Or you can develop one that requires the aid and assistance of your cohort to cast (donate a 9th level spell for -17DC, which saves another 153,000gp and 6,120xp).
Unlike spells in the PHB and othr sources, Epic Spells are
not required to be taken "as is". EACH epic spell, even if iconic, is developed seperately and privately by the epic spellcaster who wishes to know how to CAST it.
Besides, for the comparison to have ANY worth ... if your Cleric can afford an Epic Dispel, the Theruge can afford a roughly-comparable epic spell of his OWN.
Minimum cost 1,210,000gp. Sorry, you're looking at a 30+ level character who has invested nearly the entirety of his resources into one item. That goes away with first Epic Dispel, mdj, or sunder that his opponent cares to do.
Unless the Theurge made it herself. Then it'd cost her 605,000GP and 12,100XP.
Armor
cannot be sundered - RTFM.
Epic Dispel, on the item, will only suppress it for 1d4 round. IF that. And one Wish or Miracle later (admittedly, for an XP cost), *poof* the suppression is over with.
As for MDJ ... First,
that is one of the broken-est spells in existance. Second,
CLERICS are
not able to cast MDJ.
Third, there's always the (IMO highly probable) chance that the Theurge sprung for the feats leading up to Epic Counterspel - if for no other reason than BECAUSE he has such a high number of spells per day. So the odds of getting an MDJ off successfully is approximately
not on your life. God help you if the Theurge picked up a level of Archmage, and got
Mastery of Coutnerspelling, 'cause then every turn-able spell you throw, will get countered
and reflected.
Lastly, unlike your wee Cleric, the Theurge
can cast MDJ, and stript he cleric of as many buffs and items as the cleric hoped to strip the Theurge of. The cleric isn't likely to be counterspelling that, either.
Your ruling, you live with it.
You show me where that's "my" ruling. The RAW don't exempt Epic spells from being sucked up by a Rod of Absorption, nor reflected by an ordinary (okay, an
empowered) Spell Turning.
Which bypasses the Theurges whole advantage. Oops! Where was the world shaking power again?
Um, hello ... is that an echo I hear from the interior of your head? That
is an advantage. The cleric can cast Miracle, X number of times per day. The Theurge can
match that
AND cast both Wish and Limited Wish, besides.
I also assumed a +2 advantage in starting CON, which is likely.
Nice try to backpedal, lackwit, but you cited
only the Divine Power. BEsides, at 30th level, a 2-point constitution difference would produce a THIRTY point hitpoint difference, not twenty. Your math stinks ALMOST as much as your ability to recognise the importance of game balance.
For a 4th level spell that lasts 1rnd/level? Kinda makes GMW look weak, dont it?
Nope. GMW can benefit your allies. Thunderlance can't. GMW can be used to enhance your RANGED attacks (like, with a crossbow). Thunderlance can't.
And the chances are that I'm giving up <50 damage to gain 150hp, thats assuming its not Quickened, in which case I give up nada.
Except a quickened spellcast for the round. And if you can't manage to do over 50hp per round with a 30th level cleric,
you're doing somethign so unbelievably, stupidly wrong that you shoudl be
ashamed of yourself.
And if you have a 20' reach with just your arm, then the 20' lance coming out the end reaches to 40', doesn't it?
And dont blame me for the rule, I think its stupid too. A 10' long polearm, extends your reach 20'+ if you have a natural reach of 20'+.
Reach weapons
of the appropriate size double your reach. An Athach (size Huge) wielding a human Longspear (weapon size medium) does NOT get doubled reach. Again ...
RTFM.
As for Thunderlance - the spell specifies your EXACT reach. IT does not, itself,
have the "reach" quality. You could be a Tiny
Grig sorceror, and the Thunderlance will still have a reach of 20'.
No, the spell creates a weapon that does the damage. That ruling would lead to a Maximized Summon Monster with Max HP, All 18 stats, and that does max damage with every hit. Thats not the way it works.
With thunderlance, that IS how it works. The damage is the direct (random) result of the spell itself.
The monster is SUMMONED (an average representative of it's species) by a Summon Monster spell, it isn't CREATED by the spell.
Any farther and you nuke 1/2+ of BOTH spell lists.
Waaah, poor baby. If you don't want to lose the option to use direct offensive spells,
don't despecialise. Focus on one class or the other to keep up with, or
accept that teh consequences of
your own choices is to see your spellcasting fall behind far enough that you have to avoid SR-susceptible spells like the plague. I say again, "waaah, poor baby."
Did you notice they CHANGED Spellpower for 3.5?
I'm still confused as to how you think getting 2:1 in the same class is perfectly balanced, but spreading it out over two classes is so god awful beerOOkin.
BEcause you can't do that
FOREVER. You can do it
for only five levels, tops. There's a difference between being able to take 5 levels of archmage, and get +5 spellpower ... and taking
fifty or more levels of Mystic Theurge.
And my epic MT gives you the option to let the second class languish by not throwing EBF at it, or you can split your EBF between the two classes and slowly fall farther and farther behind the specialized caster.
If you truly believe that, you'e even stupider than my already ultra-low opinion of you has been, so far.
You don't fall further and further behind
if you're getting +1 caster level per class level, you're
holding position. "failing to catch up" != "falling behind".
And trading CL and EBF and HD and...makes for a really weak character or the loss of game balance
Says you - you who haven't even played at ANY epic level(s), yet.
Pax suggested the same thing when he said spend a feat to gain UA Magic Rating. Thats another reason why I dont see what Pax's argument with the 2:1 is. If you want to do that, than even the WotC EMT gets CL+10 to start with and the advantage keeps growing. That, my friends, IS broken.
And
any multiclass spellcaster could take said feat. Fighter/Wizard? Go for it.
But you would STILL not be getting the same EBF progression.
It irrelevant to the discussion of the MT.
Not when
you are the one who brought up the insistance that only COHORTS were support characters, it's not.
Thats kinda my point, the Epic Spellcasting system can break anything. Easily.
And again ...
you brought Epic spells into the mix.
Ad Hoc DC +6, negates Rod of Absorbtion and other Absorbtion properties.
At worst, you have to add the Ward seed.
Denied by any sensible GM - for the very reasons James enumerated already.
I can see where you get that. I dont agree with it, but I can see where you get it. The spell creates a weapon,
Nope. If that were true, you could hand the "created weapon" off to the character standing next to you. You can't, however,so nothing is CREATED at all. Force energy is continually
evoked ... but that's not the same as
creating a weapon.
the effect of that weapon is X damage.
N o, the damage is the direct affect of the spell. You can maximise Thunderlance, just as you can maximise Chill Touch.
That that damage is displayed as a variable isnt an effect of the spell. Its odd, this spell is Evoc because its a Force spell, but the effect is really a Conj.
No, the whole spell, and all it's effects, are Evocations. Get a clue, will you?
