Names of FR Deities -- usable at all?

[Flyspeck23]

Why not? Are you saying that certain names "belong" to WotC? Based on what law?

Based on the OGL. If you publish d20 material, you'd better play by the rules (this ain't the same as "copyright law").

Btw, that's the reason I'd personally stay away from using "public domain" deities which are used by WotC. It might cause more confusion than it's worth. IMHO of course
And IANAL

 

[Iku Rex]

Based on the OGL.

Ah. You're right. (The names are "Product Identity").

(For a moment I though he could avoid this by making only part of the product Open Game Content, and explain the FR connections in an non-OGC appendix. But I don't see a way to do that without "indicating compatibility or co-adaptability with a Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content".)

 

[jmucchiello]

Ah. You're right. (The names are "Product Identity").

Technically, they aren't. But they also aren't OGC. They are just copyrighted expression.

To be Product Identity, there would have to be a Forgotten Realms book with a copy of the OGL in it. The names would have to be found in the OGC portion of the book and the book would have to explicitly state that they are PI. None of this has ever come close to occuring.

(For a moment I though he could avoid this by making only part of the product Open Game Content, and explain the FR connections in an non-OGC appendix. But I don't see a way to do that without "indicating compatibility or co-adaptability with a Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content".)

One of the flaws with the OGL is that technically it applies to the entire work in which it is printed. That makes things like magazines and anthologies hard to work with under the OGL.

The real problem you have with using those names is that by definition a work containing those names, referring to those deities with the characteristics found in WotC material, is that your material is automatically considered derived from the WotC material. By law, WotC has to give you permission to distribute a work derivative of their material. They aren't going to do that. This has nothing to do with the OGL.

 

[tensen]

Ah. You're right. (The names are "Product Identity").

(For a moment I though he could avoid this by making only part of the product Open Game Content, and explain the FR connections in an non-OGC appendix. But I don't see a way to do that without "indicating compatibility or co-adaptability with a Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content".)

Actually that only steps around the licensing issues for d20 or OGL. It doesn't actually satisfy the copyright problem. Which may very well cause a revocation of the other license.

 

[Iku Rex]

Technically, they aren't.

Hmm.

One of the flaws with the OGL is that technically it applies to the entire work in which it is printed.

(You can make only part of a product Open Game Content. The problem is that the rest of he work can't contain certain things if you wish to use the OGL.)

The real problem you have with using those names is that by definition a work containing those names, referring to those deities with the characteristics found in WotC material, is that your material is automatically considered derived from the WotC material.

Cite? Because I rather doubt this. Copyright does not protect names or "characteristics".

Instead we're left with the aforementioned "indicating compatibility or co-adaptability..." part of the license. I don't see a way to get around that. (AFAICS, by explaining how something relates to a FR deity, you are "indicating compatibility".)

 

[Flyspeck23]

Technically, they aren't. But they also aren't OGC. They are just copyrighted expression.

To be Product Identity, there would have to be a Forgotten Realms book with a copy of the OGL in it. The names would have to be found in the OGC portion of the book and the book would have to explicitly state that they are PI. None of this has ever come close to occuring.

Nevertheless, there's something on this topic in the SRD:

The following items are designated Product Identity, as defined in Section 1(e) of the Open Game License Version 1.0a, and are subject to the conditions set forth in Section 7 of the OGL, and are not Open Content: [...] Forgotten Realms, Faerûn, character names (including those used in the names of spells or items), [...] umber hulk, yuan-ti.

Therefore, as deities have (character) names too, I'd guess WotC does assume they're PI too.
Granted, there are no deities to be found in the SRD, but neither are umber hulks or yuan-ti - yet those are marked as PI.

 

[jmucchiello]

Cite? Because I rather doubt this. Copyright does not protect names or "characteristics".

No, but it does protect characters. Try to write a novel with Han Solo and Luke Skywalker fighting the Emperor in a galaxy far, far away and watch how fast you get a cease and desist letter from Lucas' lawyers. Why? Character copyright. The ideas expressed in that novel are based on the works owned by lucas. A work containing those characters is automatically considered a derivative work under copyright law. Lucas owns that work and you own the expression. You cannot distribute it without Lucas' okay.

If you start throwing Torm and Helm and Tyr into your book and it is obvious from context that you mean the FR Triad, you have given WotC free money because you cannot distribute it without their permission. And they're gonna ask you pay for a Forgotten Realms license before granting that permission.

 

[Cergorach]

On the otherhand you could use Tyr in his Nordic incarnation...

 

[jmucchiello]

On the otherhand you could use Tyr in his Nordic incarnation...

Yes, you could. Just don't team him up with Helm and Torm and expect anyone to think you meant the Nordic Tyr.

 

[Cergorach]

Yes, you could. Just don't team him up with Helm and Torm and expect anyone to think you meant the Nordic Tyr.

Helm and Torm are only gods in FR, thus making them gods anywhere else kind of pisses off WotC, unless of course your Torm and Helm are completely different characters. But even then your on thin ice...

I'm sure Lucas would sue if you made a character called Darth Vader, even if it was a mage in a fantasy setting, whore white all the time, wields a big staff and throws fireballs around for a living...

It's all about the money in such cases...