Native American Environments

[SHARK]

Greetings!

I have always wondered why there have never really been any worthwhile supplements for a Native American setting. The recent Nyambe, has, for all that I have heard, finally done for Africa that which has for so long been lacking. Why hasn't anyone been able to design and market a really cool setting and campaign sourcebook for a Native American setting, both for North and South America?

For example, of course there is the Incas and the Aztecs, as well as the Mayans. All very interesting, and very compelling. I have to tell ya, every time that I see some show on Discovery or Animal Planet about South America, or South American animals, damn, can you imagine the scenery? The huge, forest covered green mountains, the waterfalls that plunge for hundreds of feet, the diverse array of animals, plants, and food, not to mention the rich natural resources of woods, silver, gold and so on, wow, what's not to love? The environment is breathtakingly beautiful, and certainly inspiring for a great fantasy environment.

Then, when you think of the cultures, but there are more as well. The Cherokee, the Iroquois, the Apache, the Sioux, the Hopewell, and on and on, just to name a few of the facinating cultures of North America. Then take some traditional and non-traditional fantasy elements like magic, elves, prehistoric monsters, and what not, and you have a great foundation for a campaign book with lots of possibilities.

What do you think?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[Snoweel]

I've often wondered about this myself, being fascinated (as per the spell) by native South American culture (and women ).

However, I think the problem with regard to running a fantasy campaign in such a setting is the massive cultural divide (at least for the 99% of gamers who are either descended from Europeans or are Europeans.)

I really believe there is a mindset required to adventure comfortably in such a setting, without constantly reminding oneself how to behave in social situations as well as what to expect in various situations.

It's similar with ancient Egypt (another setting I love) and feudal Japan.

Like I was looking everywhere for the out-of-print GURPS Aztecs a couple of years ago, and our mate Teflon Billy had a copy, which he sent to me in Sweden. (Thanks TB)

I realised that, unlike the other brilliant GURPS books I own (Rome, Greece, Egypt, Camelot), GURPS Aztecs spent a vast majority of it's word count trying to break my Eurocentric assumptions about "the way life is". Actually, GURPS Egypt was similar.

So, yeah - I think that to get a real feel for the culture of a setting, as opposed to smearing a coat of Native American paint over it, requires quite an investment of time on the players' and DM's part, as well as an open mind and a lot of patience (not to mention the most important factor - a suitable level of interest in exploring other cultures).

Vallorea's based on ancient Rome, isn't it, SHARK?

 

[Umbran]

Greetings!

I have always wondered why there have never really been any worthwhile supplements for a Native American setting.

[...snip...]

What do you think?

I think perhaps your "never" is a bit off. Maztica, IIRC, was designed to reflect Inca/Aztec themes. Now, of course, you may not feel it was "worthwhile"...

That being said, writing a setting for late a late stone-age culture is pretty daunting. It's a bit difficult to make folks happy without all the options metals give you.

 

[Hand of Evil]

What is bad about it is that we may never know what life was like before Columbus in North America, it is believed that almost 90% of population of Indians was wiped out from illness that was brought over. This is why when the English settled North America they found a lot of unpopulated lands.

 

[Sammael99]

I have always wondered why there have never really been any worthwhile supplements for a Native American setting. The recent Nyambe, has, for all that I have heard, finally done for Africa that which has for so long been lacking. Why hasn't anyone been able to design and market a really cool setting and campaign sourcebook for a Native American setting, both for North and South America?

Wasn't there a GURPS Aztecs ? I seem to have read that and would dearly love to get my hands on it...

Also Werewolf draws heavily on native american myths and the Woof society is very tribal in a way reminiscent of native american tribes.

However, on the whole, you're right. My guess is that there never was a decent game written on the subject and hence, there never was a decent game published either... Nyambe started as a free website and turned out to be so good that Atlas decided to publish it. Maybe something similar will happen with an Aztec inspired RPG ?

 

[Wicht]

What is bad about it is that we may never know what life was like before Columbus in North America, it is believed that almost 90% of population of Indians was wiped out from illness that was brought over. This is why when the English settled North America they found a lot of unpopulated lands.

I am curious about statements like this. Is this a factoid that is habitually thrown around to proof a certain viewpoint or do you know of any actual empirical evidence that suggests the 90% number. I am not disputing that the american indians were afflicted by exposure to diseases they had hitherto never been exposed to but the 90% just seems a tad high.

 

[mmadsen]

Born to Die

I am curious about statements like this. Is this a factoid that is habitually thrown around to proof a certain viewpoint or do you know of any actual empirical evidence that suggests the 90% number. I am not disputing that the american indians were afflicted by exposure to diseases they had hitherto never been exposed to but the 90% just seems a tad high.

I can't quote the evidence myself, but I know that's the currently fashionable number; I've read it elsewhere. A quick search found a least one text dedicated to the topic Born to Die : Disease and New World Conquest, 1492-1650.

 

[Tonguez]

I am curious about statements like this. Is this a factoid that is habitually thrown around to proof a certain viewpoint or do you know of any actual empirical evidence that suggests the 90% number. I am not disputing that the american indians were afflicted by exposure to diseases they had hitherto never been exposed to but the 90% just seems a tad high.

I can't say much on the 'Native American' evidence but do know that here in NZ that there are documented cases of 'Native' village populations going from 600 to 40 in one week due to the outbreak of influenza - something like 94% (Luckily my ancestors were amongst the survivors)

Whether this can be generalised across an entire country and especially across a continent (NZ is an island) is debatable.

Anyway back to America - it is known that disease did decimate huge numbers of Native Americans and that there is evidence of a highly developed civilisation in Nth America (ie comparable to the Aztecs) which by the time the 'Colonial period' arrived had been lost.

However I aldo tend to agree with Snoweel that perhaps one of the biggest influences on not having many New World settings is that most gamers are of European-descent and just don't 'get it' (Its like the few bits of Polynesian material around - in general I either find it laughable or groan-inducing)

That being said Maztica and GURPS Aztec did cover the place, and the Septrionalis site covers playing 17th Century Iroquois

 

[Hand of Evil]

I am curious about statements like this. Is this a factoid that is habitually thrown around to proof a certain viewpoint or do you know of any actual empirical evidence that suggests the 90% number. I am not disputing that the american indians were afflicted by exposure to diseases they had hitherto never been exposed to but the 90% just seems a tad high.

It is the general feeling based on different reported populations, math and evidence. A sample of this was reports from Ponce de Leon of the great river tribe, he goes on to describe a number of large cities and population.

Their is also DeSota Indian trail.

What makes it hard to call fact is a lack of hard material, best I can say is it what is currently accepted. Here is a link with some numbers.
http://www.chgs.umn.edu/Educational_Resources/Curriculum/Sample_Curricula/Curricula6.pdf

 

[widderslainte]

I'd like to see some well done stuff. I thought Maztica was a bit too much of a mish-mash of cultures, and too motivated by the novels to recreate the historical analogue.

There's some great stuff here:
http://www.catspawcomics.com/sept/sept.html

The Tekumel setting was also heavily influenced by Mesoamerican culture, but as anything remotely authentic, it can be alienating. I've got a stack of books from grad school, so I am trying to incorporate some elements to make my campaign a little less "conventionally western european", if that means anything.