Natural Attack + Monk

[Sejs]

It was FAQ'd.


And for the record, I'm with Patryn. It's bloody annoying when they pull these little 'whoop, changed our minds, just ignore what the book says' moments.

 

[meleeguy]

In a related question, can anyone tell me please what is the full attack routine and damage of a druid wildshaped into a dire ape wearing a monk's belt? SRD says "If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. "

 

[Caeleddin]

Patryn - As I said: Begging for a House Rule



Meleeguy - Dire Ape natural attacks AND as per 5th level Monk OR 5th level Monk Flurry.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

In a related question, can anyone tell me please what is the full attack routine and damage of a druid wildshaped into a dire ape wearing a monk's belt? SRD says "If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. "

What level's the Druid?

 

[meleeguy]

What level's the Druid?

8th - sorry didn't realize it would matter.

 

[Sejs]

Patryn - As I said: Begging for a House Rule



Meleeguy - Dire Ape natural attacks AND as per 5th level Monk OR 5th level Monk Flurry.

A Monk's Belt does not grant the ability to make a Flurry of Blows.

 

[Caeleddin]

I stand corrected. Just the former, then.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

8th - sorry didn't realize it would matter.

It matters because we need his BAB to give you the "real" attack progression. A Druid 8 has a BAB of +6 / +1.

So, Dire Ape wearing a Monk's belt (which grants unarmed strike damage of 1d8, 2d6 for a Large monk) ...

A normal Dire Ape looks like this:

Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+13
Attack: Claw +8 melee (1d6+6)
Full Attack: 2 claws +8 melee (1d6+6) and bite +3 melee (1d8+3)
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 15, Con 14

So, when your Druid wildshapes into a Dire Ape, he'll change that stat block to:

Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+16
Attack: Claw +11 melee (1d6+6)
Full Attack: 2 claws +11 melee (1d6+6) and bite +6 melee (1d8+3)
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 15, Con 14

Now, he has the following options when attacking:

• Single Attack, Standard Action
  1. Claw: +11 melee (1d6+6)
  2. Bite: +6 melee (1d8+3)
  3. Unarmed Strike: +11 melee (2d6+6)
• Full-attack, Full-round Action
  1. Natural attacks: 2 Claws +11 melee (1d6+6) and Bite +6 melee (1d8+3)
  2. Monk attack: Unarmed strike +11 / +6 melee (2d6+6)
  3. Monk attack with natural attack: Unarmed strike +11 / +6 melee (2d6+6) and 2 Claws +6 melee (1d6+3) and Bite +6 melee (1d8+3)

Note that, because the character is not actually a monk, he does not have access to Flurry of Blows.

 

[JoeStock]

Actully I tihnk you misunderstand the ruling. He's not saying you are flurrying with the natural weapons. I get the impression you are flurrying with your unarmed strikes, the flurry than ends and you can do your natural attacks with high penatlies.

Of course this IS overpowered and certainly worthy of a house rule. You might not have a high opinion of the sage or the FAQ, but Wizards is the maker of the game and thus the rule readings are considered by most players/gms as official.

P.S. And I do disagree with the Sage. The rules do not support his view and even if it did, that is certainly a broken rule than. The problem is that he is considered to be official and instead of having a long-ass debate with a player over what are the official rules, simply saying house rule would make life easier.

 

[Diirk]

Actully I agree with the Sage's reading. He's not saying you are flurrying with the natural weapons. I get the impression you are flurrying with your unarmed strikes, the flurry than ends and you can do your natural attacks with high penatlies.

That interpretation is pretty stupid, it means you can hit with a greatsword, then 'start' your flurry and get a bunch of unarmed attacks, then 'end' your flurry and attack a few more times with your greatsword.... what was the point of not being able to use non-monk weapons in a flurry again ?

I think more sensibly, that phrase should be interpreted to mean that you can't use any non-monk weapons in the same round that you flurry in (I'd extend that to AoOs, too).