Natural attacks and Class attacks confusion

[Hypersmurf]

As far as I know, the reason for the disarm and sunder bonus is the grip, not the weapon itself. To read that any other was is absurd.

The reason for the Dusarm and Sunder bonus is "you are the wielder of a two-handed weapon", and to read that any other way is to ignore the wording of the rules.

The monk entry also says that you can strike with multiple parts of your body, which sort of defeats the claim that it is one weapon.

You can strike with your fist, or your elbow, or your knee, but the weapon you are using is 'unarmed strike'. Just as you can stab with the point or slash with the blade, but the weapon you are using is 'dagger'.

-Hyp.

 

[Cameron]

The reason for the Dusarm and Sunder bonus is "you are the wielder of a two-handed weapon", and to read that any other way is to ignore the wording of the rules.



You can strike with your fist, or your elbow, or your knee, but the weapon you are using is 'unarmed strike'. Just as you can stab with the point or slash with the blade, but the weapon you are using is 'dagger'.

-Hyp.

Now you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

I don't buy "it just is" arguments.

As for unarmed strikes, you are just trying to split hairs. If you can wield a weapon in either hand, you can punch with either hand, both of which are unarmed strikes. I can demonstrate on you, if you want, but you probably won't like it.

 

[Caliban]

Now you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

I don't buy "it just is" arguments.

As for unarmed strikes, you are just trying to split hairs. If you can wield a weapon in either hand, you can punch with either hand, both of which are unarmed strikes. I can demonstrate on you, if you want, but you probably won't like it.

You and Hype are approaching the discussion from two different viewpoints, and you have reached an impasse - neither of you will give ground.

You are taking a "what do the rules mean" approach, which allows a certain amount of flexibility and allows interpretation beyond what is explicitly stated in the text.

Hype is taking a "what do the rules say" approach, which only allows what is stated in the text, and any interpretation based on concepts of "making sense" or "the rules are imperfect" is ground to dust under the iron heel of the RAW.

What you have failed to realize is that the Hypenator is a remorseless rules parsing robot from the future who does not get tired, does not feel pain, and will never stop. Sarah Connor had it easy.

 

[Hypersmurf]

As for unarmed strikes, you are just trying to split hairs. If you can wield a weapon in either hand, you can punch with either hand, both of which are unarmed strikes. I can demonstrate on you, if you want, but you probably won't like it.

Punching with both hands would use iterative attacks, not TWF. Unless you were using another weapon in addition.

-Hyp.

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

What you have failed to realize is that the Hypenator is a remorseless rules parsing robot from the future who does not get tired, does not feel pain, and will never stop. Sarah Connor had it easy.

Personally, I surrender an argument any time Hypersmurf is opposed to me because I'm pretty sure that means I'm wrong.

 

[Caliban]

Personally, I surrender an argument any time Hypersmurf is opposed to me because I'm pretty sure that means I'm wrong.

I don't care if I'm wrong or right, I'm still bitter.

 

[Cameron]

Punching with both hands would use iterative attacks, not TWF. Unless you were using another weapon in addition.

-Hyp.

I doubt I am a level 20 Flurrying Monk, thank you very much. Although it is nice of you to say so.

 

[Cameron]

Personally, I surrender an argument any time Hypersmurf is opposed to me because I'm pretty sure that means I'm wrong.

Pfft. Where is the fun in that?

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

Pfft. Where is the fun in that?

Who said anything about fun? Fear is the motivation!

 

[Hypersmurf]

I doubt I am a level 20 Flurrying Monk, thank you very much. Although it is nice of you to say so.

6th level warrior would suffice.

Alternatively, if you consider yourself, say, a Com1/Exp3, with a BAB below +6, it's still possible for you to punch with both hands when they make the movie.

PHB p139: "An attack roll represents your attempts to strike your opponent. It does not represent a single swing of the sword, for example. Rather, it indicates whether, over several attempts in the round, you managed to connect solidly."

So by punching with both hands, you are making several attempts with your weapon (unarmed strike) to connect - represented mechanically by a single attack roll.

(Do be warned that in so demosntrating, you'd provoke an AoO - I've got Improved Unarmed Strike )

-Hyp.