Natural Weapons; What's Your Take?

[Yunru]

So there's quite some debate over whether Natural Weapons work with Martial Arts.
It can be boiled down to two possibilities: They alter unarmed strikes (as with every instance of a PC getting them), or they're weapons (since every instance of a PC getting them could be considered just a lot of specific rules).

So I want to ask you, which do you feel it is?

 

[Krachek]

I dont have enough juridical expertise to answer that kind of question,
And my lawyer don’t take call on Sunday.

 

[S'mon]

Why not neither?

 

[Yunru]

Why not neither?

Because that would be impossible, as they're used to make melee weapon attacks.

Now if you'd asked me why not both... I wouldn't have an answer for you.

 

[S'mon]

Because that would be impossible, as they're used to make melee weapon attacks.

Now if you'd asked me why not both... I wouldn't have an answer for you.

AFAICS natural weapon attacks (eg a Beast's attack routine) in 5e RAW are neither unarmed strikes NOR weapon attacks. And yet they clearly exist! Eppur Si Muove.

Edit: IMC there's a legendary item, the Dragon Gauntlets, that allows a beast/dragon-type attack
routine as an Attack (it's Claw/Claw/if both hit then Rend). Used by a typical 2-attack PC it allows use of the routine 2/round, but in theory a Ftr-20 could do it 4 times per round, or 8 with Action Surge. Obviously this a house-created (very powerful) item though.

 

[Yunru]

AFAICS natural weapon attacks (eg a Beast's attack routine) in 5e RAW are neither unarmed strikes NOR weapon attacks. And yet they clearly exist! Eppur Si Muove.

Oh they're definitely weapon attacks when made by NPCs, it says so in their stat box. And they modify Unarmed Strike for PCs (see Alter Self or one of the player races with them like Tabaxi). I know I support option 1 because of this and Occam's Razor.

 

[S'mon]

Oh they're definitely weapon attacks when made by NPCs, it says so in their stat box. And they modify Unarmed Strike for PCs (see Alter Self or one of the player races with them like Tabaxi). I know I support option 1 because of this and Occam's Razor.

Alter Self indeed modifies PC Unarmed Strike, but doesn't create an attack routine. Alter Self or Tabaxi claw can clearly be used with Monk abilities. Unlike say being Wildshaped into bear form, where the form's attack routine replaces your class abilities.

That's my understanding & how I run it, anyway.

 

[Yunru]

Alter Self indeed modifies PC Unarmed Strike, but doesn't create an attack routine. Alter Self or Tabaxi claw can clearly be used with Monk abilities. Unlike say being Wildshaped into bear form, where the form's attack routine replaces your class abilities.

That's my understanding & how I run it, anyway.

Where's this "attack routine" thing coming from?
What is this "attack routine"?

 

[S'mon]

Where's this "attack routine" thing coming from?
What is this "attack routine"?

Claw/Claw/Bite, Claw/Bite, Claw/Claw/Rend. That sort of thing. Animals often get these multi-attack routines that are not intended to stack with PC class abilities.

 

[Yunru]

Claw/Claw/Bite, Claw/Bite, Claw/Claw/Rend. That sort of thing. Animals often get these multi-attack routines that are not intended to stack with PC class abilities.

... Multiattack is an action.
Claw, Bite and Rend are all separate attacks.