D&D (2024) Why are weapon masteries limited?

[ECMO3]

So, if it had been "you can switch when you gain a level" instead of "at the end of a long rest" then it'd have been an identical feature for you? Did you switch because of gaining a Fighting Style? Or, rather, you choose Heavy Crossbow at level 1 only because it was mechanically better than Dagger even though you already planned to switch once you got Throwing or TWF? And you're only plans to switch going forward are if you find a magical weapon that's better than what you've got now?

For clarity, I switched from Crossbow to Hand Axe and yes Crossbow was better at level 1, Hand Axe was better at level 2.

You don't think that's the same as saying you're essentially never changing your mastery? You're not planning on changing on long rests really at all.

If it had been "you can switch when you gain a level" yes it would have been the same .... this time, but I am also probably going to switch the first time I get a magic melee weapon, whether or not that is after a level.

But, do you think martial characters should have to choose between mastery and magic items then? Do you think that's the design intention of, say, fighting styles and weapon-specific feats?

Yes I think that is exactly the design, especially for the Fighter class, and Crawford even commented they would be using lots of different weapons.

Furthermore, do you think it's good DMing if you take short sword mastery, TWF style, Dual Wielder feat, and then the DM just shrugs when the third magical greataxe drops and says, "that's what I rolled"?

Yes I think that is being a good DM and I will note the party got a Staff of Striking at level 2 that did not fit anyone's style.

I don't think it is particularly good game mastering to never curate the results of the dice. I know there are people in the hobby that insist this is the only virtuous way to play the game, but I don't know any game designers that would agree.

I think it is a lot more fun to drop the third Greataxe on my Ranger-Monk than it would be for her to find a Dragontooth dagger because I happen to use dex or simple weapons. I just think the latter is lame and not as fun.

Making what you find work is part of the game and building a versatile character (for example a Ranger that did not dump strength) should be rewarded.

 

[ECMO3]

'Guy what uses polearm' is not 'super focused. It's just wanting to have their character use a weapon they want them to use.

Guy what uses a polearm isn't ... and isn't generally what I am talking about. Guy who took PAM, GWM and Sentinel at level 4/6/8 and uses a Polearm is super focused and those are the players that do not have as much fun when they don't find a magic Polearm.

Also there is nothing preventing you from using the weapon you want to. In the old 2104 game all my PCs used nets, every one of them from 2020 on (well at least the ones that survived long enough to buy one). Even the ones that were not proficient still bought and used nets. I also had Rogues who used Heavy Crossbows even though they were not proficient and a fighter that used a Morning Star because I thought the name was cool.

If you find a Vorpal Longsword that does not mean you need to put down your non-magic Glaive if you don't want to.

 

[ECMO3]

Then what is the point of finding magic weapons if they're of no use to you?

Might as well find a chest full of horses.

If you're not going to give out worthwhile treasure, I say just stop giving out treasure and just offer narrative incentives at that point.

We love magic items in the games I play.

We have a PC in a game I play that used a lot of downtime to search for magic items. So far he found three that I could use (including an Instrument of the Bards) and none that he could use.

 

[ECMO3]

Yoink! New magical item...now what's the average party size, and how many horses should be in the chest. How big is the chest? Can a horse from the chest carry the chest?

/scurries off to design table...

Not quite the same thing, but we have a magic saddle in one game I am playing that can teleport a horse, its rider and 6 others as per the teleport spell once a week.

We were in a fight where the party got separated while assaulting a castle. Myself (Bard) and the Monk were in a bedroom in the top floor of the keep fighting the boss and getting our ass kicked. The Wizard on the bottom of the castle mounted the Warhorse in the courtyard and teleported it into the bedroom sight unseen. After we killed the boss lady and took the castle the Warhorse was stuck in the bedroom until the Saddle recharged because it was too big to go out the door or down the stairs.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Guy what uses a polearm isn't ... and isn't generally what I am talking about.

They're the people being underserved by random treasure.

They're being forced to be less effective at the game for no good reason* while the players of the handful of classes that actually matter to the designers don't have to put up with that kind of thing.

*No, seriously what is being served by randomized treasure. This isn't even one that someone can claim the v-word because no one is hoarding that many flaming slings and +2 whips vs the polearm--the literal most common weapon of war in history.

I'm starting to think oD&D, much like the mighty graham cracker for other 'vices', was invented to curb gambling addiction.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

That's fine if you don't think is should. I gather from the OP they do?

Actually I don't. I'm a fan of warriors picking up whatever they find and being just as good with it. 5e's fighting styles are going about as far I can stomach, and I don't allow the damage type focus feats.

So my interest is trying to understand how this design was supposed to be useful for those who do like characters getting strong mechanical bonuses for weapon specialization, since that seems to be the target audience, and yet it certainly doesn't seem like it's designed well for those purposes.

 

[Horwath]

Guy what uses a polearm isn't ... and isn't generally what I am talking about. Guy who took PAM, GWM and Sentinel at level 4/6/8 and uses a Polearm is super focused and those are the players that do not have as much fun when they don't find a magic Polearm.

what should a guy who trains to be a fighter take?

Chef, Skill expert and Skulker?

PAM, GWM and SENT are natural progression of the fighter that fights in that way.

you want diversity in builds, give extra feats slots every 4 levels that can be only taken by "cool" or "roleplay" feats.

 

[Steampunkette]

Yoink! New magical item...now what's the average party size, and how many horses should be in the chest. How big is the chest? Can a horse from the chest carry the chest?

/scurries off to design table...

Oh... what if it was a jewelry box of tin horses like you might find in miniature wargaming?

And you pull out the horses and put them out with a bit of distance from them, say their names, and they POOF into full sized horses? Could even have the Jewelry Box itself turn into a wagon or carriage when the command word for that is given, and have a team of 6 horses pulling the wagon.

Though the body-horror alternative of opening a jewelry box and seeing chestnut horseflesh unfurl and take shape into a horse that practically explodes out of the box like someone inflated a horse-shaped balloon is also compellingly awful...

 

[Bacon Bits]

I ran some friends through some older modules but using 5e, there were so many magical items that many couldn't really be used. At one point there was a "yet another +1 sword" moment, but that was able to be traded away. The modules were from BECMI, they're practically a loot pinata.

That's partly because the TSR people seemed to think it was normal or common to have 8 to 12 PCs in a campaign. Plus hirelings and followers that also needed equipment.

 

[ezo]

That's partly because the TSR people seemed to think it was normal or common to have 8 to 12 PCs in a campaign. Plus hirelings and followers that also needed equipment.

Well, often enough it was IME. It was fairly common to have 2 to 3 PCs per player, moving in and out of different adventures as needs and the story demanded.

I remember I had 3 PCs in one campaign who were all brothers. One was a Fighter, another a Paladin, and the last a Magic-User.