D&D (2024) Why are weapon masteries limited?

[Bacon Bits]

It has come up in my games. My Ranger started with Heavy Crossbow and Dagger and switched to Hand Axe and Dagger at level 2 if I find a great magic thrown weapon I will switch to that.

So, if it had been "you can switch when you gain a level" instead of "at the end of a long rest" then it'd have been an identical feature for you? Did you switch because of gaining a Fighting Style? Or, rather, you choose Heavy Crossbow at level 1 only because it was mechanically better than Dagger even though you already planned to switch once you got Throwing or TWF? And you're only plans to switch going forward are if you find a magical weapon that's better than what you've got now?

You don't think that's the same as saying you're essentially never changing your mastery? You're not planning on changing on long rests really at all. That's kind of the point I'm making. It doesn't really come up.

Also I don't think it is a bad DM to give random loot or if using an off the shelf product whatever is in the adventure. Rewarding players who choose versatile builds is not being a jerk either.

But, do you think martial characters should have to choose between mastery and magic items then? Do you think that's the design intention of, say, fighting styles and weapon-specific feats?

Furthermore, do you think it's good DMing if you take short sword mastery, TWF style, Dual Wielder feat, and then the DM just shrugs when the third magical greataxe drops and says, "that's what I rolled"?

I don't think it is particularly good game mastering to never curate the results of the dice. I know there are people in the hobby that insist this is the only virtuous way to play the game, but I don't know any game designers that would agree.

Magic items are intended to be player rewards. That's why they're in the dungeons in the piles of treasure instead of in the shops on the wall for sale. But a reward that you can't use is not a reward at all. It's like giving a bachelor a cradle for his birthday and wondering why he's not overjoyed.

 

[abirdcall]

I do think random treasure requires an active magic item trade to work. You need to be able to sell unwanted items and use the money from doing so to buy wanted items. Or if you don’t like the idea of buying and selling magic items, at least allow players to break them down into a resource they can use to craft the items they want. Otherwise, just give players items they’ll actually want to use.

I don't like magic items being just another part of character creation.

Random items add something unplanned to the story. This is what was there, do what you can with it.

I also don't guarantee X amount of items so they aren't wasted because they aren't there in place of something else.

I like magic items to be special and choosing them takes that space in the game away.

 

[GMMichael]

. . . But a reward that you can't use is not a reward at all. It's like giving a bachelor a cradle for his birthday and wondering why he's not overjoyed.

Sure it is:

DM: Hornric, you find a quarterstaff. It doesn't touch the ground.

PC: QUARTERSTAFF?? Omigod. I'm a paladin, not a monk!

NPC: Sir, an item of wondrous power!

PC: Squire, shut it. I don't use quarterstaffs, and I can probably sell that thing for the price of a new blade. No hilt, no enchantments.

NPC: But, sir, surely its lightness can be of some benefit? Perhaps its magic can be imbued upon another weapon, mayhaps, of your choosing?

PC: Nah, nah. If I pick that stupid thing up, it's just going to draw attention, bump into things, and then I'll basically have to go on another quest just to get it to your magic-imbuer. It will be a whole lot of trouble for an uncertain outcome, with probably danger and questionable payoff.

NPC: You mean like what we're doing right now?

PC: Shut up.

 

[Vaalingrade]

That is exactly what I said above! PCs that drive toward super-focused narrow "optimized" non-caster builds don't have as much fun.

'Guy what uses polearm' is not 'super focused. It's just wanting to have their character use a weapon they want them to use.

 

[ezo]

'Guy what uses polearm' is not 'super focused. It's just wanting to have their character use a weapon they want them to use.

They can still use the polearm if they want. Just because the party finds a magical handaxe, for example, doesn't mean the polearm-guy has to use it... I mean, I am assuming he is using the polearm because he finds enough benefit from it to want to use one?

 

[Vaalingrade]

Then what is the point of finding magic weapons if they're of no use to you?

Might as well find a chest full of horses.

If you're not going to give out worthwhile treasure, I say just stop giving out treasure and just offer narrative incentives at that point.

 

[SkidAce]

Might as well find a chest full of horses.

Yoink! New magical item...now what's the average party size, and how many horses should be in the chest. How big is the chest? Can a horse from the chest carry the chest?

/scurries off to design table...

 

[ezo]

Then what is the point of finding magic weapons if they're of no use to you?

Might as well find a chest full of horses.

If you're not going to give out worthwhile treasure, I say just stop giving out treasure and just offer narrative incentives at that point.

That's a pretty narrow view IMO.

Just because a treasure isn't of use directly, don't mean it isn't useful in some other manner.

I've had plenty of games where PCs had their main "nonmagical weapon", but when they found a magical dagger or something kept it for when they needed +1 weapons to hit. Of course, in 5E, 99% of the time you don't need magic weapons, armor, or anything.

It is a bonus, not a right IMO. YMMV of course.

New magical item...

Actually, it isn't a bad idea, especially if the horses can go back inside! Instant transport for the whole party? Sounds extremely useful IMO!

 

[cbwjm]

I ran some friends through some older modules but using 5e, there were so many magical items that many couldn't really be used. At one point there was a "yet another +1 sword" moment, but that was able to be traded away. The modules were from BECMI, they're practically a loot pinata.

 

[ezo]

I ran some friends through some older modules but using 5e, there were so many magical items that many couldn't really be used. At one point there was a "yet another +1 sword" moment, but that was able to be traded away. The modules were from BECMI, they're practically a loot pinata.

Oh, yeah, the amount of magical items in most modules is crazy IME.

In 2E we had a campaign where literally all of our henchmen had minor magical armor and weapons, potions of giant strength, healing, etc. It was pretty nuts!