Need examples of why D&D is evil
- Thread starter Bugaboo
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Happiest_Sadist
First Post
There are essentially three reasons why it is argued that D&D is evil.
1. It causes the participant to disconnect from reality into a fantasy world.
This is also the case with good fiction, video games, tv, and even chess. This is by no means a problem all the time. For D&D and any other means off entertainment may be a harmless relaxatin, and may even excercise usefull skills, like the ability to use logic, that apply both to the game world and the real world. This only becomes a problem when the player centers his life around D&D/TV/chess/etc. This is the problem, not D&D.
2. The players have their charachters engage in evil behavior such as wholesale slaughter, torture, pacts with deamons, and in the more extreme arguments, any casting of spells. This will eventually lead to undertaking these activities in life.
As for the casting of spells there is a simple counterargument. The properties of the fantasy world are different than the real world. The magic of a fantasy world does not corespond to that that adherants claim exists in the real world. So why must fantasy magic require the trafficing with deamons that real magic supposedly does. Similarly, the violence of combat may be neccessary in a fantasy world with different social structures and types of enemies without it being any more acceptable or desirable in real life.
As for evil acts, there are several ways to escape this problem. One is to say that simply you do not play an evil charachter. Although evil as rules, players are expected to be good, noble and heroic. Another is to say that D&D is a way to vent steam and have a kind of cathartic experiance without causeing real world damage. Or one could still study evil in oneself and man in order to understand it, so that one may be combat evil in oneself and others in the real world. Thsi is a similar approach as the christian study of demonology.
The evil in D&D is only a problem when it is held up as noble and heroic, or when it is taken up by people with severs psycological disorders that cannot distinguish reality and fantasy.
3. D&D players kill themselves and commit other crimes much more often that the general population.
Given suicide and murder rates at several per 10,000 pop per year, and no more than the same 10 cases cited in any article, compared to the 10s of thousands of D&D core books that have been in circulation for over 10 years. Even assuming only one player per PHB, the crime rates seem to be LOWER than average.
Even if this were not the case, it could be argued that D&D attracts the disturbed, not creates them. It would then be as valid to claim that prison creates criminals because of the high concentration therein, as D&D creates insanity.
1. It causes the participant to disconnect from reality into a fantasy world.
This is also the case with good fiction, video games, tv, and even chess. This is by no means a problem all the time. For D&D and any other means off entertainment may be a harmless relaxatin, and may even excercise usefull skills, like the ability to use logic, that apply both to the game world and the real world. This only becomes a problem when the player centers his life around D&D/TV/chess/etc. This is the problem, not D&D.
2. The players have their charachters engage in evil behavior such as wholesale slaughter, torture, pacts with deamons, and in the more extreme arguments, any casting of spells. This will eventually lead to undertaking these activities in life.
As for the casting of spells there is a simple counterargument. The properties of the fantasy world are different than the real world. The magic of a fantasy world does not corespond to that that adherants claim exists in the real world. So why must fantasy magic require the trafficing with deamons that real magic supposedly does. Similarly, the violence of combat may be neccessary in a fantasy world with different social structures and types of enemies without it being any more acceptable or desirable in real life.
As for evil acts, there are several ways to escape this problem. One is to say that simply you do not play an evil charachter. Although evil as rules, players are expected to be good, noble and heroic. Another is to say that D&D is a way to vent steam and have a kind of cathartic experiance without causeing real world damage. Or one could still study evil in oneself and man in order to understand it, so that one may be combat evil in oneself and others in the real world. Thsi is a similar approach as the christian study of demonology.
The evil in D&D is only a problem when it is held up as noble and heroic, or when it is taken up by people with severs psycological disorders that cannot distinguish reality and fantasy.
3. D&D players kill themselves and commit other crimes much more often that the general population.
Given suicide and murder rates at several per 10,000 pop per year, and no more than the same 10 cases cited in any article, compared to the 10s of thousands of D&D core books that have been in circulation for over 10 years. Even assuming only one player per PHB, the crime rates seem to be LOWER than average.
Even if this were not the case, it could be argued that D&D attracts the disturbed, not creates them. It would then be as valid to claim that prison creates criminals because of the high concentration therein, as D&D creates insanity.
Awww, skrew it.
Admins: please shut down this thread now, at the request of the original poster.
For some stupid reason, I really thought we could make references to "evil" in a fantasy game without tripping into comparisons between real-world religions and people's negative comments about someone else's belief system.
I forget myself sometimes.
So close it now, please.
Admins: please shut down this thread now, at the request of the original poster.
For some stupid reason, I really thought we could make references to "evil" in a fantasy game without tripping into comparisons between real-world religions and people's negative comments about someone else's belief system.
I forget myself sometimes.
So close it now, please.
the Jester
Legend
It seems to me that you guys are mostly making light of a very serious topic. Come on, guys! Let's face it- this hobby of ours takes up a really (if you think about it) disturbing amount of time, and it pushes behavior that isn't really "good." Even a "good" character kills, steals (loots), etc. all the time. With the forthcoming BoVD, it seems that TSR is pushing us to even more exteme behavior. Everyone knows that your fantasies have a direct impact on your behavior. Has anyone thought that maybe the BoVD is a direct response to the increasing number of non-violent games out there?
Personally, I don't believe dnd is evil; that would require a hard look at my own behavior and deciding that I'm evil myself. Yeah, right- who's gonna do that? But I do think there are elements in the TSR circles that want to use it for a sinister agenda. Heck, I challenge anyone to dispute that rpgs are addictive. They're meant to kind of pull your attention from the real world into a phony (man-made, not God-made) world and convince you that you're doing good deads. Meanwhile, the well-grounded boy scout is actually helping Eric's Grandma across the street. And the things you're deciding are 'good deads' are really killing and stealing, destroying things because they're different, intolerance of other cultures and religions ("they're just savages" is a line I've heard in too many campaigns)... The intollerance is a very important part of the TSR game plan; eventually gamers (at least the weak minded ones) will reject other game types that aren't close enough to dnd (rpgs, ccgs, wargames ok; scrabble, no way; monopoly involves "loot" so it's gonna stay; etc).
Just a few thoughts...
Personally, I don't believe dnd is evil; that would require a hard look at my own behavior and deciding that I'm evil myself. Yeah, right- who's gonna do that? But I do think there are elements in the TSR circles that want to use it for a sinister agenda. Heck, I challenge anyone to dispute that rpgs are addictive. They're meant to kind of pull your attention from the real world into a phony (man-made, not God-made) world and convince you that you're doing good deads. Meanwhile, the well-grounded boy scout is actually helping Eric's Grandma across the street. And the things you're deciding are 'good deads' are really killing and stealing, destroying things because they're different, intolerance of other cultures and religions ("they're just savages" is a line I've heard in too many campaigns)... The intollerance is a very important part of the TSR game plan; eventually gamers (at least the weak minded ones) will reject other game types that aren't close enough to dnd (rpgs, ccgs, wargames ok; scrabble, no way; monopoly involves "loot" so it's gonna stay; etc).
Just a few thoughts...
Mathew_Freeman
Adventurer
I agree with Bugaboo. Shut this thread down before a full on thermonuclear flame war starts.
And if I'm correct, this was a deliberate, slightly light hearted thread at first anyway?
Shut it down, its not doing anyone any good.
And if I'm correct, this was a deliberate, slightly light hearted thread at first anyway?
Shut it down, its not doing anyone any good.
BigFreekinGoblinoid
First Post
Hey Bugaboo! Here is why D&D is evil:
1) D&D has taught me to how to interact with people instead of watching too much T.V. or playing video games. How will I ever remember to go to McDonalds and drink Coke without constant reminders to do so? It would definitely be evil if I was responsible for the collapse of capitalism.
2) D&D has expanded my vocabulary and oratory skills, and promoted my interest in reading. Sometimes my three+ syllable words confuse people and they stare at me funny. It would definitely be evil if violence occurred due to a modern " Towel of Babel" situation!
3) D&D has opened my mind to fantastical notions besides the accepted norms. What if everyone finds out that the world isn't flat? It would definitely be evil if everyone had to change their outdated preconceptions - Think of the ensuing chaos!
4) D&D has forced me to consider the definitions of Good and Evil on a regular basis. What if people learn to think for themselves? It would definitely be evil if people had to learn from their own mistakes instead of blindly following someone else's rules!
5) D&D has kept me really busy, and I haven't had time to attack other people's interests. How can I ever shape the world into my idea of utopia if I cannot convert them to my way of thinking? It would definitely be evil if I trumped up false scenario's ( ie: - lied ) as an excuse to troll on other people's messageboards!
Edit: PS. Can we close the thread I started now, cuz I don't like the way this conversation is evolving? Free speech is also probably evil if they don't agree with me.
1) D&D has taught me to how to interact with people instead of watching too much T.V. or playing video games. How will I ever remember to go to McDonalds and drink Coke without constant reminders to do so? It would definitely be evil if I was responsible for the collapse of capitalism.
2) D&D has expanded my vocabulary and oratory skills, and promoted my interest in reading. Sometimes my three+ syllable words confuse people and they stare at me funny. It would definitely be evil if violence occurred due to a modern " Towel of Babel" situation!
3) D&D has opened my mind to fantastical notions besides the accepted norms. What if everyone finds out that the world isn't flat? It would definitely be evil if everyone had to change their outdated preconceptions - Think of the ensuing chaos!
4) D&D has forced me to consider the definitions of Good and Evil on a regular basis. What if people learn to think for themselves? It would definitely be evil if people had to learn from their own mistakes instead of blindly following someone else's rules!
5) D&D has kept me really busy, and I haven't had time to attack other people's interests. How can I ever shape the world into my idea of utopia if I cannot convert them to my way of thinking? It would definitely be evil if I trumped up false scenario's ( ie: - lied ) as an excuse to troll on other people's messageboards!
Edit: PS. Can we close the thread I started now, cuz I don't like the way this conversation is evolving? Free speech is also probably evil if they don't agree with me.
Last edited:
ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
D&D is evil cuz it takes time away from my quilting.
ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
Crothian said:
Ya, it's much harder now to get a good quilting bee these these days especially with the Amish now playing the Grim and Gritty version of d20 fantasy.
You're lucky; the Amish in my area switched over to F.A.T.A.L. some time ago.
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