Need help creating a kicking Sorcerer

[Cyan]

I'm going to play a game where everyone will be power charaters with high min-maxed stats, but not on the same level of munchkiness as the 10 PrC combo smackdowns.

I will be playing a magic-user, mage or sorc. I would like to try the Sorc, so combos based on that class are most welcome.
We will start the game at level 4 and finish it at 16.
I was considering a Pal1/Sorc / Arcane Order charater.
The Arcane Order helps the limited spell selection the sorc has with his spell pool.

Some Feats:
I think energy substitution feat will be helpful to increase the versatility of the spells he will be able to cast.
Spell Focus in either evocation, enchantment.
Spell penetration.

I have a hard time desiding which spells to choose from the spell list.
I have heard that most people think the sorc gets the shaft compared to a mage (skills, meta magic feats), is this really the case in a dungeon crawl type of adventure?

Please help me with some cool/power ideas, feats, spells and good equipment for a sorc.
/Fredrik Nilsson

 

[SpiderMonkey]

If you read the requirements for the Mage of the Arcane Order, you'll see that you have to be able to _prepare_ arcane spells, which means you can't be a sorcerer, which spontaneously casts spells. FYI

 

[Oni]

If you read the requirements for the Mage of the Arcane Order, you'll see that you have to be able to _prepare_ arcane spells, which means you can't be a sorcerer, which spontaneously casts spells. FYI

you can sidestep this in true powergamer fashion with the arcane preperation feat.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Well, here's a character I made up which is exactly what you describe- a sorcerer in the arcane order. Enjoy.

Human

LN

str:10
dex:10
con:14(+2 belt)
int:14
wis:10
cha:16
(starting scores - 28 point buy)

Level 1: Sorcerer - Arcane Preparation, Still Spell
Level 2: Sorcerer
Level 3: Sorcerer - Cooperative Spell
Level 4: Sorcerer - +1 cha
Level 5: Sorcerer
Level 6: Mage of the Arcane Order - Skill Focus (Scry)
Level 7: Mage of the Arcane Order - Eschew Materials
Level 8: Divine Oracle - +1 cha
Level 9: Divine Oracle - Silent Spell
Level 10: Mage of the Arcane Order
(after 4th level MoAO, switch to DO)

Base Saves (level 10): +2/+2/+10

Spells known: 9 5 4 3 2 1
Spells per day: 6 6 6 6 5 3
Bonuses: - 2 1 1 1 -

Tactics: Prefers to station himself in a dark, inaccessible corner, from which to cast spells. In more confined quarters Thunderlance can be used to threaten an immense area, which helps flanking. It is also very helpful against incorporeal attackers. Choke and Grease are helpful against spellcasters or tool-using creatures, and with False Life he can supplement a cleric. Glitterdust can blind opponents, or reveal invisible ones. Of course, a character with a good spot score may be required to indicate the correct area.
Frequent uses of divination magic helps ensure he and his companions don't go into situations blindly.
Can access 5 spell levels per day (of levels 1-3) from the Spell Pool. One day he might cast Invisibility Sphere and Rope Trick; another day he might employ Illusory Script and cast a Magic Mouth. Maximum "spell debt" is 30 spell levels.

Weasel Familiar: (+2 to Ref saves)
Familiar Stats: Int 8, Speak with Master, empathic link, improved evasion, share spells, touch spells.

Spells known
Oth level: Detect Magic, Dancing Lights, Disrupt Undead, Mage Hand, Mending, Ray of Frost, Read Magic, Resistance, Silent Portal (MaoF)

1st level: (Identify) Lesser Acid Orb (TaB), Detect Undead, Grease, Protection from Evil, Mage Armor

2nd level: (Augury) Choke (TaB), False Life (TaB), Flaming Sphere, Glitterdust

3rd level: (Divination) Fireball, Fly, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance

4th level: (Scrying) Thunderlance (MaoF), Wall of Ice

5th level: (Commune) Teleport

Saves:

Total:

Skill points:


Magic items:

Belt of Dwarvenkind 14900
(+4 on Cha checks w/ Dwarves, +2 w/ Gnomes and Halflings, -2 otherwise.
Understand, read, write Dwarven. 60 ft. darkvision, dwarven stonecunning, +2 enhancement bonus to Constitution, +2 resistance bonus to poison, spells and spell-like effects.)

Ring of the Darkhidden 6700

Ring of Sustenance 2500

Hand of the Mage 1000

Slippers of Spider Climbing 4000

Cloak of Resistance +4 16 000

Wand of Shield 750

46 100

 

[Isida Kep'Tukari]

If you're powergaming, and playing a sorcerer, then you'll probably want to go for the artillery-type. Choose your spells carefully for maximum usage at each level. If you can choose spells from third party sources, check out Book of Eldritch Might I & II, because they have some great spells (particularly ones with more than one energy discriptor, like cold and sonic, or acid and fire).

As was mentioned, Energy Substitution is good for versitility. If you can afford it, Energy Admixture would be great. Metamagic feats are your friend, so try things like Empower Spell, Extend Spell, Enlarge Spell, Persistant Spell, Twin Spell, and Sculpt Spell.

It's probably worth it to either spring for the Improved Familiar feat, or wait until the appropriate level and cast the elemental familiar spell. Elemental Familiar spell link. This gives you a really hardy familiar that can help you in combat as well as scouting.

A prestige class would be nice, though many of the nicest for sorcerers (elemental savant, alienist) require ranks in knowledge that sorcerers don't get. However, if you're playing in the Forgotten Realms or are allowed to choose feats from there, select Cosmopolitain or Educated and get those knowledge skills as class skills. Then you can take those prestige classes.

And despite the spell level hit, PrCs like the Blood Magus, Mindbender, Acolyte of the Skin, adn Fatespinner (Tome and Blood) actually have some excellent abilities that make them very worthwhile. The Embermage from Book of Eldritch Might is also along similar lines.

For magic items, you can't go wrong with bracers of armor and cloaks of charisma. The metamagic rods from Tome and Blood are also an excellent choice. Since you have a wider weapons choice than the wizard, it might not hurt to have a few magic crossbow bolts or a magical mace around.

I hope that helps!

 

[Ravellion]

A kicking sorcerer... hmmm... Weapon Focus: Unarmed and Improved Unarmed strike?

Seriously though, I would stay single class, sice your spell access is already quite slow. For AC minmaxing, take a Kobold. +1 small, +1 dex, +1 Natural. Speed is still 30 feet. Darkvision. Downside: -4 strength...

 

[Cyan]

Thanks for all your feedback!!

But what about taking a level of paladin for those supersaves, is it worth it?

 

[shilsen]

Not really. A sorceror is already getting spells a level later than a wizard. With a paladin level, you'd be getting (for example) 5th lvl spells as an 11th character level. It's just not worth it, IMO.

 

[Liminal Syzygy]

No, it's not worth the paladin level by any means.

One thing a sorcerer in my campaign did that worked well was take Endure Elements. Since it lasts 24 hours he would cast it before he went to sleep. And since you can use your 2nd and up spell slots to cast 1st level spells as well he would cast everything he had left to pass around 24 hour buffs against all kinds of different elements.

If you go to the Wizards min-max boards I believe some person there has compiled from previous discussion "the definitive sorcerer spell list".

 

[Bauglir]

A sorcerer only needs 3 things

1. The ability to deal damage
2. The ability to avoid damage
3. A way out

1. look at taking a few different flavours of nuke. Getting Fireball and sculpting/substituting/etc is all well and good, but you don't want to be casting using a fra all the time. Magic missile is a must have.

That said, metamagic is your friend. Doubly empowered cold substituted sonic orbs will make short work of most fire subtype creatures, and with the right set of feats you can usually have a good spell for any occasion

2. There's the obvious ones on here - shield, imp invis, fly, wall of force. Ghost Form from T&B is an excellent one at 5th level. Also think about 'offensive defence' - immerse your enemies in magical darkness and they'll have trouble enough finding you, though it's not too difficult to target fireballs. A Horn of Blasting is a wonderful item, as it leaves foes stunned for 1 round, even if they make their save.

3. The last thing you need is an escape route if things go wrong. For this, Teleport is the spell to get.

Avoid spells that lose their usefulness as you level like the plague. This means spells like Sleep are right out. Similarly avoid overlap in your spells. Don't take dimension door AND teleport. You're better off waiting and taking Greater Dispelling than getting Dispel Magic. Versatile spells like eyebite and symbol are handy as you can get multiple different effects very 'cheaply'

Once you've got those three areas covered you should have a few other spell slots free. A few buffs are nice on a sorcerer, as you have the slots to throw them around generously, or you could go for utility spells, or divinations.