Need help explaining something to a player

[Felix]

D&D is not a game of believes.

Right. It's a game of suspending disbeliefs.

And cheetos.

 

[ceratitis]

gosh did you see how many big names you got to post here?

on the topic, while by the raw you may be right i'd like to raise another point. on a personal level how importent is this player to you and the party? i'm guessing importent enough. try and talk to her until you work something out that would leave her happy while not too tough on your job as dm. after all be it a game of believes of suspeded disbelieves (and cheetos, though i prefer pringles) the bottom line is to have fun. dont let the life of an imaginary BBEG stop you from having fun
cheers. hope all goes well.
Z

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Characters don't sustain any major injuries till they reach zero or less hit points, only then their wounds catch up with them. In other systems people get progressivley worse and worse off, DnD is not one of those systems, it wouldn't be hard to make that way though.

 

[Festivus]

OT sort of: For some reason I am thinking that "Massive Damage" is an rule variant and not part of the standard rule set. Am I wrong? I have never played that way before, and am really curious as I am not familiar with the rule.

I do as Piratecat states, if the players want something put into the game, I remind them that it must apply for the NPCs as well. That does indeed usually change their mind.

 

[cmanos]

from the SRD

Massive Damage: If you ever sustain a single attack deals 50 points of damage or more and it doesn’t kill you outright, you must make a DC 15 Fortitude save. If this saving throw fails, you die regardless of your current hit points. If you take 50 points of damage or more from multiple attacks, no one of which dealt 50 or more points of damage itself, the massive damage rule does not apply.

Not a variant rule.

Casting on the Defensive: Casting a spell while on the defensive does not provoke an attack of opportunity. It does, however, require a Concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to pull off. Failure means that you lose the spell.

Make a concentration check or lose the spell...no attacks of opportunity here.

Taking damage in any amount before you cast a spell has no effect on the spell.

 

[dungeon blaster]

Massive Damage is not a variant rule, but Massive Damage by Size is.

The Rules As Written have been pointed out already:

1. 53 damage provokes DC 15 Fort save or die
2. Spell-like ability provokes AoO unless cast defensively
3. Quickened spell does not provoke AoO
4. Readied action could have accomplished some of what the player wanted.

However, if you and your players want to deviate from the RAW, there is nothing wrong with that. But, like Piratecat said, if it affects the monsters, it should affect the players (with a few exceptions).

 

[Aereas]

I thank you all for posting a reply!

To clear some of the arose questions up:
Yes it was 53 damage from 1 hit, and no I did not make the fort save as I don't use the massive damage rule. While yes the system shock makes sense I hate the idea of a character dieing from a normal attack due to a bad fort save.

The rule about applying things to baddies and players alike is a good thing to bring up! I didn't even think of that but I will keep it in mind for next time. I Settled for raising the concentration DC of the baddie and just moving on with the game until this matter could be settled.

Once again I would like to thank everyone for thier comments. If the player isn't satisfied (or agrees) with all the comments posted so far then I say "oh well. I tried, and doing anymore would be just plain out uneeded".

 

[Mistwell]

I think it is easiest to explain that hit point damage does not necessarily represent a physical wound. It's not like a high level character has more mass than a commoner. It's just that high level characters have more of a combination of things that lets them take more "damage". The things include mass, and luck, and ability to shrug off pain, and the ability to shift and take a blow in a less harmful way, and other stuff some of which is hard to precisely measure.

So if I have 100 hit points, and you hit me for 50 hit points of damage, you did physically damage me. But more importantly, you reduced my "luck", my ability to shrug off more pain, my ability to dodge and shift damage easily, and things like that. A lot of those other factors have no impact on my ability to cast a spell.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

It's not a case of unclear RAW, of course, it's a case of explaining it to the player.

I'd do so by saying, "I'm okay giving him a penalty (+2) if you want due to the massive damage, but if I do so I should be giving you guys a penalty as well then you get hit really hard. Is that what you want?

Whenever I explain things this way, I players usually change their minds.

I would take a similar approach...

"Personally, I agree that it would be realistic to impose some kind of significant circumstance penalty. In the rules as written, such things do not exist for this kind of situation. The effects of damage, even very large amounts, do not generally linger in terms of penalties.

"I willing to impose such penalties. But it is not going to be limited just to spellcasters and similar effects. Ands that means I will be dishing them out to both the NPCs and your characters regularly.

"I think that will slow the game down more than it is worth. But I am willing to do so if you prefer.

"Keep in mind what will happen to the front line fighters when I start throwing Giants at them. Or the entire party is unlucky and get engulfed by a particularly big Fireball. Think about what those penalties will look like.

"I will have fun watching both the NPCs and PCs suffer these penalties. But I am not sure you will fun if your PC dies because he loses initiative, gets hammered in the 1st round of combat, he is ineffective in his counterattack because of lingering penalties, and then he is slaughtered like a farm animal in round 2.

"I am willing to try it and see how it works out, if you want."

 

[teddywars]

Responce

I think it is easiest to explain that hit point damage does not necessarily represent a physical wound. It's not like a high level character has more mass than a commoner. It's just that high level characters have more of a combination of things that lets them take more "damage". The things include mass, and luck, and ability to shrug off pain, and the ability to shift and take a blow in a less harmful way, and other stuff some of which is hard to precisely measure.

So if I have 100 hit points, and you hit me for 50 hit points of damage, you did physically damage me. But more importantly, you reduced my "luck", my ability to shrug off more pain, my ability to dodge and shift damage easily, and things like that. A lot of those other factors have no impact on my ability to cast a spell.

Ya, I like his responce best Aereas. And I would not have been against similar penalties imposed on us after a large amount of damage. I suppose there are other ways and other things to worry about. And from experience, the little problems and penalies thing doesnt seem to work too well... Not sure if you remember it, but I tried to do it in my game... Perhaps the players were just weak or maybe I simply imposed too much on them from the rules and such I applied in the game. Either way the game died. I will still argue points with you but now with this, I suppose we can argue points with all these people too!!! (Trust me all you other people, that is NOT a good thing as Aereas can tell all of you )