Need help pricing some magic items

[wujenta]

Hi all

I just ended DMing Red Hand of doom and need help pricing the magic items i want to give to my characters as the reward for finishing the campaign. We started this campagn at lvl 9 instead of 6 because i prefer to play with existing characters than create new ones just for one adventure, so I had to adjust the baddies and tactics for it and PC´s ended in 12-13.

The players were:

Dwarf Fighter/Dwarven defender 8/4 our main tank
Human Bard 13, our main buffer and second healer
Human sorcerer 12 our blaster
Human Fighter/Cleric (joramy) 5/8 tertiary tank and healer (not much really, he chose joramy to get war and destruction as his domains and acts more as a fighter than healer)
Human Druid/warshaper (he didnt survive the final part and we dont have means to resurrect him for now...so one less magic item for me to think) he was the second tank

Ii was thinking giving them this:

Helm of Battle: +2 str, +2 con, enlarge person 2xday (CL 10) and Blind fighting feat

Helm of Magic: +2 cha, +2 int, 2xday reduce the cost of a memagic feat by 1 (minimum 1)

Helm of Courage: +2 cha, +2 wis, +2 saves agianst fear, +1 saves against fear to allies in 30 feet, You inspire courage as a bard 3 lvls higher

Helm of Fire Might: +2 dex, +2 wis, fire shield 2xday (do fire damage and protect form fire damage, CL 10)

I would like to know how much would you price this helms and if they are more or less balanced with each other.

Thanks in advance

 

[eamon]

This is finicky business, so I'll put my idea's in a spoiler block so as not to prejudice others!
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In general, the stat boosts aren't worth the full 8k since you can't choose em, and usually will only need 1. Make sure you allow the stat boosts to be upgraded, otherwise they'll really be almost useless. Most of the abilities here look like they should be swift actions to activate, but make sure to specify either way.

Helm of Battle: +2 str, +2 con, enlarge person 2xday (CL 10) and Blind fighting feat

21,000gp

Helm of Magic: +2 cha, +2 int, 2xday reduce the cost of a memagic feat by 1 (minimum 1)

11,000gp

Helm of Courage: +2 cha, +2 wis, +2 saves agianst fear, +1 saves against fear to allies in 30 feet, You inspire courage as a bard 3 lvls higher

8,000gp. This item's core ability is too weak, making it mostly a stat-booster. Improve the core ability, which I'd now rate as something like 1,500gp. It's an odd ability anyhow, since it's better at high leves, but there, it's consumption of a body-slot but relatively minor effect make it useless. 3 levels higher of inspire courage isn't even a reliable +1 on inspire courage, so high-level characters would only ever wear it (if at all) during those levels in which they do benefit. This items needs changing.

Helm of Fire Might: +2 dex, +2 wis, fire shield 2xday (do fire damage and protect from fire damage, CL 10)

Normally a fire shield either deals fire damage and protects from cold or vice-versa. Fire shield is pretty situational. 10,000gp.
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[moritheil]

The Courage Helm seems kind of weak, both numerically and in the non-cha stat bonus. What does a bard need +wis for, anyhow? +dex is much better for most bards.

 

[Folly]

I would suggest changing the Helm of Courage such that “You inspire courage as a bard 3 lvls higher" to "Your inspire courage grants an additional +1" This has two benefits. Making the item better (effectively +7 level) and not having it become useless at higher levels (as you bard approaches 20 those level bumps wont have anywhere to go). You also might want to consider changing the wisdom bonus as moritheil suggested. Dex or Con would be good, it depends on your bard as to which makes sense.

I would also think about giving the helm of magic and helm of fire might an additional use. I do like eamon's suggestion to make activation of all these items swift actions but
I do not think the helm of fire might is as situational in this case as eamon says. Having played with a warshaper, this item addresses their role and weakness perfectly. (weakness = AoE spells, role = tank) I would give the player the ability to chose at the time of use which to protect against.

Since there are 4 items and 5 characters, I am assuming you plan to give two helm of battles for the two fighters.

As far as pricing that is a very tricky issue. The first issue I am seeing for pricing is that there is not a bonus type for the stats. Normally, this means that the bonus is unnamed. Unnamed bonuses are generally worth more than typed bonuses. The other problem is determining the value of a feat / class ability. The only example to work with is the ring of evasion. For blind fight I set it at about ¼ the value of evasion. This is because it is a feat instead of a class feature and because it is situation.

So looking at these items, they feel to be about the same power. Thus you should either use the most expensive or cheapest as the price for the items. After eyeballing it, by the creation rules the Helm of Battle will end up being the cheapest (I know it is silly). Each stat bonus has a base value of 4000, but since I am assuming it is unnamed it is at least worth 25% more, 5000. The enlarge person is worth (1*1*1800)/(5/2) = 720. Based on the assumption of ¼ cost of evasion blind fight is worth 6250. Then when placing multiple effects on a single item all effects, except for the cheapest, have an additional 50% tacked on. So the cost of each part becomes: 7500, 7500, 720, & 9375. These total up to 25095.

Now this isn’t a perfect price, since there are so many assumptions, but it does put it inline with the price that eamon stated (since I believe he was assuming enhancement bonus for the stats, it should be abit cheaper) Also since you are creating unique magic items, I would suggest giving the items out with the string that you want to play test them for awhile, and items might get buffed or nurfed depending on how they feel relative to your desire for the items.

 

[eamon]

I was indeed assuming that the stat bonuses are meant to be enhancement bonuses and thus non-stacking with almost all other stat-boosting items and spells such as bull's strength. I did not use the DMG formula's, but rather tried to find similar items in the MIC or DMG (such as indeed the ring of evasion, the fiery tunic, the badge of valor, the corsair's eyepatch, the blindfold of true darkness and various metamagic rods). If the bonuses were to be unnamed, I think the items are inappropriate, and if they're named as an inherent bonus a +50,000gp - +100,000gp price premium should be payed (at least) to bring them in line with items such as a tome of understanding.

On a whole, I think the items are weak to be a real reward for 12th+13th level characters. An item of 30,000gp would be more appropriately impressive (which they can only sell for at most 15k); but that might throw your wealth by level out of whack if your players aren't a little behind.

For about 32k, you can get a +4 weapon, two +4 stat boosts, A cloak of resistance +5 and two +2 stat bonuses, a +4 enhancement bonus to natural armor, an orange prism ioun stone (+1 caster level), a +1 inherent bonus to a stat, a metamagic rod of empower (up to 6th level spells), a lesser rod of quicken (up to 3rd level spells), various nice runestaffs (MIC176-180), a +1 radiant breastplate of haste, a +4 mithral full plate...

Of course, what you give them needs to be in line with your campaign world and their position therein.

 

[wujenta]

Yep, the bonuses are enhancement bonus and the activation for the special abilities is a swift action. I would tell the players that the enhancement bonus can be upgraded later so they can continue to use them at higher lvls (thanks eamon)

I liked some of the suggestions, so I made them again:

Helm of Battle: +2 str, +2 con, enlarge person 2xday (CL 10) and Blind fighting feat (this one remains unchanged as it seems well balanced)

Helm of Magic: +2 cha, +2 int, gives Spell penetration feat and 2 x day reduce the cost of a memagic feat by 1 (minimum 1)

Helm of Courage: +2 cha, +2 dex (thanx Moritheil), +2 saves agianst fear, +1 saves against fear to allies in 30 feet, Your inspire courage grants an additional +1 (thanks Folly)

Helm of Fire Might: +2 dex, +2 wis, fire shield 2 x day (CL 10) ( need one continuos effect to give to this one...i cant think of one right now...please help )

And yes, perhaps they are a little low for 12-13 lvl characters, but we are playing in a low level magic world.

 

[Folly]

You might want to consider giving the Extra Wildshape feat as the extra affect.

If the stat bumps are enhancement bonus, then do your players not already have +2 or better items of their primary stats. I know that on casters that I play, I would have a +4 item for my casting stat by that level. Since the bonuses wouldn't stack, does it make sense to give them redundant benefits?

 

[Darklone]

Helm of Fire Might: +2 dex, +2 wis, fire shield 2 x day (CL 10) ( need one continuos effect to give to this one...i cant think of one right now...please help )

Take a look at the PHB2 ... the variant monk bonus feats with fiery stuff. You might think to grant the wielder one of these feats while he wears the helm (at least for 24 hours worn before useage...).

 

[Folly]

I thought about those as well, but they use stunning fist attempts to power the feats. So it would have to give stunning fist in addition to fiery fist. And since the item is designed for a druid there is no simple alteration that could be made. (Cant really use wildshape uses since they are so few)

 

[Darklone]

Then allow him to wildshape into a fire elemental ?