Need Help with Cost of Magic Ring

[The Blue Wizard]

One of my players has requested to craft a magic ring in 3E D&D. He is an 11th level sorcerer, and wishes to make a ring that would have the following attributes:
-detect magic on command
-identify 4 times daily
-Spell Craft Bonus +25

According to the DMs guide, the formula for calculating this is:
+25 bonus costs 12500 gp
Permanent detect Magic is 1800 gp
Identify 4 times daily is 9440
And then 10% added to each on for stacking them into one item.
This gives the ring a pre-market value of around 25000gp to create.

I am worried that this ring will unbalance the game because it will allow this PC to make all spellcraft checks -- every spell cast at him he will know what it is, the effects of items, etc... BUT, he has calculated the creation of this ring according to the rules fairly. AND, the rules state that skill check bonuses in magic items have no upwards limit. Will it unbalance my game to allow a skill to be this high? What would be a more realistic price for such an item (I am having a hard time comparing it to other items in the DMG)? Perhaps I should not be worried about items that raise skill checks ths high -- but I have not DMed higher level campaigns yet. ANY advise is welcome!!

 

[Nightfall]

You could always require that if he wishes to half the XP and Gold cost, he could try to find a couple lost tomes or something valuable that deals with knowledge (say like an outsider servent to a god of knowledge.)

If you feel this is not going to work for you though, just say "I'm sorry but I don't feel comfortable with this in my game at the moment. Perhaps after a while, I'll let you forge it"

 

[boxstop7]

Well, ultimately YOU are in charge. If you're worried that the ring might unbalance the game, let the player know. There's always a compromise. From the list of features the player wishes to incorporate into the ring, it sounds to me like he/she is obviously trying to tilt the game to his/her favor. Tell the player "no". There's nothing wrong with a DM telling players that their requests are unreasonable. Trust me...my DM has no qualms with it. If we're out of line or we're asking too much, he lets us know. He doesn't jump down our throats, but he tells us exactly what he thinks of the situation.

If I'm not mistaken, there are numerous instances where the DM's Guide says "use your discretion". Yes, according to the rules the ring is completely legitimate. But that's why it's called the DM's Guide and not the DM's Book of Inflexible Law. If you think the ring will be too powerful, as the DM you have the authority to tell that player so. Tell him/her to 86 the idea, or at least table it until later in the campaign. Or compromise. Allow the ring to be created, but cut its power in half.

Just remember (as I have been told many times recently by various posters on this very site) that YOU are in charge. Don't let the players push you around. Be flexible, but trust your instincts. And that's all I have to say about that.

~Box

 

[Dingleberry]

Personally, I'd never allow an item in a non-epic campaign with a skill bonus greater than +10. (I don't have the Epic Level Handbook, but I'm sure someone with it will chime in with what it has to say on the topic.) Do the rules actually say there's no upper limit, or do they simply not state an upper limit? If it's the latter, I think you're clearly in the realm of "DM's discretion."

I'd also increase the price of the identify component if the player is assuming he won't need 8 hours to cast it out of the ring (which he must be, otherwise he wouldn't need it to be available four times a day).

 

[Oogar]

Thought the Errata on the DMG said it was supposed to be an extra 100% for additional abilities in the same magical item (Unless they are "linked in a theme" as mentioned in Tome and Blood)?

 

[mkletch]

Personally, I'd never allow an item in a non-epic campaign with a skill bonus greater than +10. (I don't have the Epic Level Handbook, but I'm sure someone with it will chime in with what it has to say on the topic.) Do the rules actually say there's no upper limit, or do they simply not state an upper limit? If it's the latter, I think you're clearly in the realm of "DM's discretion."

There is no hard & fast rule, but there is a strong implication that +10 is the non-epic limit. Anything with a Jump effect, of course, is the notable exception. I think the epic limit is +20.

Originally posted by The Blue Wizard
One of my players has requested to craft a magic ring in 3E D&D. He is an 11th level sorcerer, and wishes to make a ring that would have the following attributes:
-detect magic on command
-identify 4 times daily
-Spell Craft Bonus +25

According to the DMs guide, the formula for calculating this is:
+25 bonus costs 12500 gp
Permanent detect Magic is 1800 gp
Identify 4 times daily is 9440
And then 10% added to each on for stacking them into one item.
This gives the ring a pre-market value of around 25000gp to create.

The DMG errata did change it to +100% on subsequent, added effects (i.e. double the cost). The "by the book" on this one would be:

5440 for identify [(1800*1*1 + 50*100) * (4/5)]
1000 for detect magic [2000*0.5*1]
2000 for non-epic +10 spellcraft bonus (20 * 10^2)
or
125000 for epic +25 spellcraft bonus (20*25^2*10)

I'm assuming you want the non-epic version, so you'd double the detect magic and spellcraft:

5440 + (1000 + 2000)*2 = 11,440gp

Now, it's not that powerful if you use identify as in the book (only the most basic power revealed). It is, afterall, only a 1st level spell. The other abilities are fairly trivial, and almost typical. Still, you are the DM, and it is your perrogative to alloow or disallow any item. If I were you, though, I'd try to have a good reason. If someone burned a feat on Forge Ring and you rule-0 even the most basic items, there could be some hard feelings from the player in question.

-Fletch!

 

[Geoff Watson]

Why does he want four Identifies per day? There's only enough time to use three of them, even if you don't sleep (takes 8 hours to cast).
Also, I wouldn't allow more than +10 on a non-trivial skill in a non-epic item, but that's up to you.

Also, you forgot the material component cost for identify.

Geoff.

 

[Hygric]

Epic skill boost items grant a bonus of higher than +30, so this is not an epic ring.

Activating a spell from a ring is a standard action, so ID will have it's casting time significantly lowered.

But, shouldn't he have to be a 12th level sorcerer before making a ring?

As for cost:
spellcraft bonus +25: 12,500
detect magic (treating it as a command activated item): 1,800
ID 4/day (once again, command activated): 12,880
All powers as a first level caster.
total cost: 27,180 gp

Now, as to if I would allow this in my game? No. I HATE the skill enhancing items. way to good! I am thinking of house ruling them down to 1/5 the bonus for the same price in my game, so if this ring was a +5 bonus to spellcraft for the same price, I would have no problems with it.

 

[Jolly Giant]

Thought the Errata on the DMG said it was supposed to be an extra 100% for additional abilities in the same magical item (Unless they are "linked in a theme" as mentioned in Tome and Blood)?

You're right. Both Sean K. Reynolds and Monte Cook has called it '...the most dangerous piece of errata in 3E'.

 

[Sanackranib]

Ring

!st off you do't even have to worry about it until he makes it to 12th level. thats the minimum level for forge ring. Then I would limit the spellcraft check to +10 and let him go with it. it doesnt sound too powerfull. make him use a partial action to activate the ring and that should adiquatle address your "game balance" issue.