Need help with Gestalt character

[Delak]

I have allowed my players to make their characters gestalt after losing two players. They are currently level 13 and have remade their characters gestalt keeping it close to their orginal characters in concept and classes. I am having an issue with calculating BAB. This is how I have been doing. I look at each level and check the BAB of each class if it increase by +1 I add that to his BAB, if it does go up I dont add it. Is this correct.

For example one character is 3 mnk/ 3 sor and then switches to clr so it would look like this.
1 mnk / 1 sor
2 mnk / 2 sor
3 mnk / 3 sor
1 clr / 4 sor
2 clr / 5 sor
3 clr / 6 sor
4 clr / 7 sor

So with that in mind I cam up with this for a BAB based on the class layout above.
1 mnk / 1 sor +0
2 mnk / 2 sor +1
3 mnk / 3 sor +1
1 clr / 4 sor +1
2 clr / 5 sor +1
3 clr / 6 sor +1
4 clr / 7 sor +1

Total BAB +6

Please if this is not correct let me know I have not found anything on the Wizards site about this.
Thanks
Delak

 

[Thanee]

You best calculate BAB in one of two ways:

1) Fractional BAB. Poor BAB is +0.5 per level, moderate BAB is +0.75 per level, good BAB is +1 per level. Then just add up the higher of the two classes of each level and round down at the end.

2) Look at each level and whether the better BAB is poor, moderate or good. Add together the levels where poor is the best BAB, the levels where moderate is the best BAB, and the levels where good is the best BAB, so you end up with up to three numbers in the end. Now look up the BAB on the wizard/cleric/fighter table for the level indicated by each calculated total (poor/moderate/good) and add those three together.

Your example character has moderate BAB throughout (monk and cleric), so the final BAB is +5 at 7th level (with both methods).

A more complex example for 2):

Ftr/Sor -> good BAB
Clr/Sor -> moderate BAB
Wiz/Sor -> poor BAB
Clr/Sor -> moderate BAB
Brb/Sor -> good BAB
Clr/Sor -> moderate BAB
Wiz/Sor -> poor BAB

That's +2 (2 levels of good BAB, as 2nd-level fighter) +2 (3 levels of moderate BAB, as 3rd-level cleric) +1 (2 levels of poor BAB, as 2nd-level wizard) -> +5 total BAB.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ferrix]

And Thanee is quick on the draw. Do that.

 

[Drowbane]

You best calculate BAB in one of two ways:

1) Fractional BAB. Poor BAB is +0.5 per level, moderate BAB is +0.75 per level, good BAB is +1 per level. Then just add up the higher of the two classes of each level and round down at the end.

2) Look at each level and whether the better BAB is poor, moderate or good. Add together the levels where poor is the best BAB, the levels where moderate is the best BAB, and the levels where good is the best BAB, so you end up with up to three numbers in the end. Now look up the BAB on the wizard/cleric/fighter table for the level indicated by each calculated total (poor/moderate/good) and add those three together.

Your example character has moderate BAB throughout (monk and cleric), so the final BAB is +5 at 7th level (with both methods).

A more complex example for 2):

Ftr/Sor -> good BAB
Clr/Sor -> moderate BAB
Wiz/Sor -> poor BAB
Clr/Sor -> moderate BAB
Brb/Sor -> good BAB
Clr/Sor -> moderate BAB
Wiz/Sor -> poor BAB

That's +2 (2 levels of good BAB, as 2nd-level fighter) +2 (3 levels of moderate BAB, as 3rd-level cleric) +1 (2 levels of poor BAB, as 2nd-level wizard) -> +5 total BAB.

Bye
Thanee

This is a nice House Rule. However, thats all it is.

Gestalt stats that at each level you get the best of both classes. If your BA, Fort, Ref, or Will goes up on one side of your gestalt on any given level... it improves for that level. Yes, this can be powergamed. No, it shouldn't matter, you are already allowing gestalt.

 

[Thanee]

You are wrong, Drowbane. You do not gain a +1 to BAB, if the class you level in has an increase in BAB at that level. All you gain is the BAB *progression*, that's all it says in the Gestalt rules. BAB progressions are poor, moderate and good BAB.

The above is one possible way (two, actually; there are certainly many others) to achieve this. IMHO the best.

Bye
Thanee

 

[szilard]

This is a nice House Rule. However, thats all it is.

Gestalt stats that at each level you get the best of both classes. If your BA, Fort, Ref, or Will goes up on one side of your gestalt on any given level... it improves for that level. Yes, this can be powergamed. No, it shouldn't matter, you are already allowing gestalt.

Ummm... Gestalt is more or less a house rule to begin with...

It might be worth noting that the fractional BAB stuff in Unearthed Arcana is in the Gestalt section for a reason.

-Stuart

 

[Stone Dog]

Thanee is right. It took me a bit to work through the language used to describe it, but that is absolutely the way to go.

Otherwise you get the old example of somebody taking...

ftr/sor +1 from fighter, +0 from sorcerer
wiz/sor +0 from wizard, +1 from sorcerer
wiz/sor +1 from wiz, +0 from sor
wiz/sor +0 from wiz, +1 from sor
wiz/sor +1 wiz, +0 sor
wiz/sor +0, +1
wiz/sor +1, +0

And claiming they have a right to a +7 BAB. even with only one level in a good BAB class.

One level of Good BAB and six levels of Poor BAB gets you +4 to attack and that should be just fine.

 

[Drowbane]

You are wrong, Drowbane.

Wouldn't be the first (or last) time

You do not gain a +1 to BAB, if the class you level in has an increase in BAB at that level. All you gain is the BAB *progression*, that's all it says in the Gestalt rules. BAB progressions are poor, moderate and good BAB.

Precisely my point... sort of...

I'm not saying Thanee's House Rule isn't the best way to go, it does fix a huge loophole afterall, but how is it not a house rule?

As you rise in levels, you consult your BA and Save progressions. If one of them for your Gestalt Classes goes up, you improve... thus "the better progression from the two classes". Pretty simple really. Cheesy with multiclassing? Absolutely!

You get similiar results with saves by just multiclassing alot. Surely you don't think that a Fi 3 / Bbn 3 / Rgr 3 has just the Fort save of a level 9 Fighter?

Edit: Note that these type of loopholes don't appear if you disallow Multiclassing with Gestalt. Fi 10 | Wiz 10 (for example) is pretty self evident.

 

[Stone Dog]

You don't need to refactor anything at all. You go to page 20 of the PHB and say "Okay, I have a level of Good BAB, plus one there. Hey, a level of good Fort! +2! And a third level of good Will, with a bonus next time." This is the way that is a consensus at the Unearthed Arcana forum and confirmed through WotC customer service.

This is to prevent people from gaining abilities above what normally could be achieved through regular multiclassing. Such as the ftr1/wiz6)(sor7 with a +7 BAB or somebody staggaring ninja and rogue to get ten dice of sneak/sudden attack dice at tenth level. That is why the wording is that you take the better progression not the better bonus.

This is the way WotC clarified it back when the book first came out and the wording caused similar confusion. From what has been said by the company that put out the book and these optional rules, Thanee is in the right.

 

[Stone Dog]

You get similiar results with saves by just multiclassing alot. Surely you don't think that a Fi 3 / Bbn 3 / Rgr 3 has just the Fort save of a level 9 Fighter?

Saving throws are specifically intended to be calculated at a different rate than normal. WotC would have mentioned this in the errata, but since UA is nothing but optional/nonstandard houserules anyway, they decided that time spent on an errata for it would be better spent elsewhere. It kinda blows, I know.