Need some DM help.

[Fooly_Cooly]

Hey. I need some help as a dm. Ive Dm'd a few times and have been a player a lot but usually my groups dont stick together to long due to work etc etc. I finally got a working group going in my low magic campaign and then....someone snuck a wizard in. Now usually it wouldnt even be a problem. You know wizard. Squishy guy right? No....He is a dwarven earth fire wizard who has a base ac of 22 and no arcane spell failure chance. He is a fire dwarf so he also has fire resistance 15 and gets to ad +1 to the dc of all his fire spells. Really the only way I have ever managed to challange casters is get in there face with some melee. This guy can dish out and take damage almost as well as a fighter 2 lvls lower than him self AND is an optimized wizard. So now with him on board I have trouble challenging the whole party. Help please?

 

[Mad Hamish]

Check to see that the character is legal because it sounds extremely dodgy.

 

[IronWolf]

Yeah, the character sounds suspect to me. What sources are you allowing for the game? What sources is this player using? It sounds like it is time for a thorough review of the character sheet to make sure this player isn't "conveniently" overlooking some of the cons to some of his choices.

 

[Fooly_Cooly]

Yeah I thought so to. The thing is out our own home brew world. Me him and his brother are the creators. Now his class build seems legit. Fire dwarves are allowed in our world and he is a normal pathfinder mage with arcane armor training and a material that lowers the spell save dc the rest of the way. I did have some problems with his spells though. He has everything from 2 different types of instant pit spells to a magnetic spell that lets him rip armor right of of fighters. According to the spell it has a magnetic pull up to 3000 pounds. Its only a lvl 2 or 3 spell. He ripped the breastplate right off a boss enemy lowering his AC by 6 right at the start of an encounter. Said he only needed enough to break the leater straps holdinh it on. Then he almost ripped his sword out his hand but failed. Only becuase I rolled high and the guy had a strength of 32.... I said I hadnt heard most of his spells and he said that we never restricted what books spells came from. That casters can pull spells from any book. When I argued that fighters should then be able to pull feats from any book everyone said it wasnt the same thing a jumped down my throat... Hes making it a pain in the rear to even make a decent fight. He just rips the clothes off em and drop em in a hole. If they have wings he even has a spell that makes it so they cant fly .

 

[Pielorinho]

I said I hadnt heard most of his spells and he said that we never restricted what books spells came from.

This is a big warning sign. I'd suggest the following conversational points:

• Characters must not overshadow the rest of the party. Currently he's stealing the spotlight from other players.
• You're running the game, which means you're responsible ultimately for what happens in the world. He can certainly make suggestions, but ultimately he only gets to vote on the world with his feet: if he's so severely unhappy with your decisions that he can't take it any more, you'll be sorry to see him go.
• Any spell not from the core rulebook must be approved by you between sessions. This starts now: he needs to submit all non-core spells to you that he wants to keep in his spellbook. If you disallow any of them, you'll compensate his character appropriately.
• The same thing applies to any feat, prestige class, trait, etc.: you'll need to see it in advance so you can decide whether to allow it.

I've had similar conversations with players in my games (I had one guy who managed to combine two prestige classes from two different third-party books to gain something like an 8th-level monk with DC 28 paralyzing touch and always-on true seeing, for example). Players who try tricks like this tend to get irritated when you disallow them, but everyone else tends to appreciate it.

That said, I'd be very curious to read the actual text of that magnetism spell he's talking about. For a third-level spell to outperform a fifth-level telekinesis would require either a poor interpretation of the spell or else very poor spell-writing.

 

[Fooly_Cooly]

Yeah I agree. I just suck at caster play so I have a hard time understanding the limitation of spells. Part of the problem is I started the party of with a NO arcane restiction. I told them later I mwould let them multiclass or give them an arcane follower when it seemed appropriate in our low arcane world. He showed up at a session and asked if he could jump in. I asked what he was. He said he was a dwarf with a battle hammer and armor. I assumed that meant a fighter. So even though I knew he was a major min maxor the other martial players arent too shabby so I figured it would be ok. I didnt even know he was a caster until he cast his first spell.... then he just laughed and said he hadnt lied to me. It was a real kick in the pants seeings as he himself is a dm. I think I will demand a cop of his char sheet and come back here when I have his spell list and where they came from. Thanks guys. I wanted to be sure I wasnt just being a stingy dm . Any further advice is more than welcome!

 

[SkredlitheOgre]

Yeah I thought so to. The thing is out our own home brew world. Me him and his brother are the creators. Now his class build seems legit. Fire dwarves are allowed in our world and he is a normal pathfinder mage with arcane armor training and a material that lowers the spell save dc the rest of the way. I did have some problems with his spells though. He has everything from 2 different types of instant pit spells to a magnetic spell that lets him rip armor right of of fighters. According to the spell it has a magnetic pull up to 3000 pounds. Its only a lvl 2 or 3 spell. He ripped the breastplate right off a boss enemy lowering his AC by 6 right at the start of an encounter. Said he only needed enough to break the leater straps holdinh it on. Then he almost ripped his sword out his hand but failed. Only becuase I rolled high and the guy had a strength of 32.... I said I hadnt heard most of his spells and he said that we never restricted what books spells came from. That casters can pull spells from any book. When I argued that fighters should then be able to pull feats from any book everyone said it wasnt the same thing a jumped down my throat... Hes making it a pain in the rear to even make a decent fight. He just rips the clothes off em and drop em in a hole. If they have wings he even has a spell that makes it so they cant fly .

First off, total bollocks. This kid is a powergamer at best, munchkin at worst. Personally, I would call shenanigans and make him make a new character. You're running a low-magic campaign and he's not low magic.

Okay, so a 2nd or 3rd level spell can pull 3,000 pounds? That seems a bit much. What spell is this, anyway? Where is he getting these spells? I've looked through the CRB, APG, UM, and UC and can't find anything that does that.

If you want to make it a challenge, then use things like ring of protection, amulet of natural armor, the mage armor spell...stuff that he wouldn't be able to pull away (which I think is bollocks anyway). Have someone wearing plate mail. That way he can't pull just the front off, it would be the entire suit, person and all, coming toward him.

And not every weapon has to be made of metal. Wooden arrows. Wooden crossbow bolts. Clubs/greatclubs. Sling bullets. Use intelligent encounter design. Use wooden caltrops to make them either use resources to heal or to slow their speed. He can only cast so many spells per day. Make him and the party work for it. No 15-minute work days. If they rest, they're attacked. Use the rules of fatigue and exhaustion.

Have enemies switch tactics. He rips their armor off? Okay, they switched to ranged attacks because their melee advantage is gone. Use waves of enemies and give them Sneak Attacks. Do fire dwarves take extra damage from cold? Use that.

If he's the only high-magic caster in a low-magic setting, he'll have a reputation based on fear and distrust. Maybe people think he's a demon in human form. That could mean no healing at the temple, no rooms available at the inn (leading to more fatigue), traders/craftsmen don't want to work with/for him. Maybe some young gun spellslinger wants to take him down and has 'learned from a Master from over the mountains,' i.e. pulled out some 3rd party stuff of your own. Hell, use whatever you want because it 'wasn't specified.'

Maybe the Fire Dwarves themselves are coming to 'have a talk' with him because of his awesomely fear-inducing powers, common folk are starting to think that all Fire Dwarves are walking spellbooks and are refusing to have anything to do with the Fire Dwarves.

This guy sounds optimized for combat, so put him in non-combat situations and see how he deals.

Again, total bollocks.

 

[SteelDraco]

The DM should be aware of any material brought to the table, and really should be provided with a complete character sheet and materials used. Have you read his spells and confirmed what they do?Sounds like he's picking the best stuff from anywhere he can, and not everything is well balanced with everything else. You might consider talking to the group and limiting source material if things are unbalanced as written.

 

[Fooly_Cooly]

Yeah I wish he would make a new char. Like just a normal wizard. Those guys are already really strong. The thing is his brother(another party member) is already mad cuase he keeps being targeted by enemies. I told him. Hey man when your an unarmed fighter who keeps tripping grappling and manacling all the enemies partners they are going to target you. It just makes sense. I believe they talked it over at their house and decided to sneak the wizard in so for some vengeance. I dont purposefully target the other guy. He is just the very frontline and is always grappling and tripping enemies. so yeah when there are multiples they start going for him after he has 2 of their mates tied up on the floor . And I always make sure not to do it till he has succeeded a few times. As in the monsters wait to see who the greatest threat is. It used to be him or the TWF swashbuckler since he has major dmg output. Throw in a tank wizard and now I have to throw stuff at them this is 3 cr higher then there lvl to challenge them at all. Problem is most other players in the party can only take about 1 or 2 hits from said monster before falling unconcious. So I get alot of flak for it. BTW my part went from 3 players to 5. Was 1 chameleon rogue a skirmisher ranger and an unarmed fighter. Now its them the wizard and a revamped swashbuckler.

 

[gamerprinter]

It sounds like this guy and his brother are trouble. They are deliberately looking for ways to sabotage your game with a broken character build, unrevealed tactics between the brothers' characters.

I would ask the player in question to tell you which books he used for all his characters abilities, spells, feats, etc.

If he points to any D&D 3.5 books, I would say, "We're playing Pathfinder, and not D&D, you can only use PF Core rules, Advanced Players Guide, Ultimate Magic, and Ultimate Combat - you cannot use any other books."

Now I know you want to still be friends with these guys, but unless they change their tactics and intentions - it would probably be best to not allow them in your game (I wouldn't allow players who try to cheat in my game.)

If nothing else, post his character here in this thread, so we can look over the sheet and critique it proper - we'll tell you if he's cheating or not.