New Article: Death and Dying

[Voss]

@johnsnow- maybe thats what you're trying to duplicate. Slapstick comedy action cliches are really my personal bag o' tea, however.



@Dragonblade & Lizard. You are both incorrect. There is nothing in the 3.5 rules that suggests npcs and monsters die at 0 hit points. They follow the staggered/dying/dead rules just like PCs. Several monsters (like boars) even have special rules that take advantage of this fact.

 

[Goobermunch]

Jack McFighter's allies had all fallen. The castle was overrun. Beset on all sides by his foes, one finally brought him down- a sword through the chest. Jack stared down at it as he fell to the ground, life leaking away, watching as the enemy found the civilians taking refuge in the cellars and began their conquest. NO! Thought Jack. It cannot end this way! With great strength of will Jack rises to his feet...

"Hello, my name is Jack McFighter. You killed my allies, prepare to die."

--G

 

[Professor Phobos]

@Dragonblade & Lizard. You are both incorrect. There is nothing in the 3.5 rules that suggests npcs and monsters die at 0 hit points. They follow the staggered/dying/dead rules just like PCs. Several monsters (like boars) even have special rules that take advantage of this fact.

Yeah, but in actual play, that's a needless increase in complexity, headache, and boredom, so no one bothers.

"Hello, my name is Jack McFighter. You killed my allies, prepare to die."

Yes, exactly.

I like this rule. 4th is very slowly warming my heart. Admittedly this is mostly because I'm playing 3.5th right now and it isn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. Admittedly this is because I'm only playing.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

*Huge beaming smile* If my PCs can pull off an encounter half as good as Princess Bride, I will be so happy

 

[Wormwood]

I also just don't like the set up that PCs are super-duper special guys that operate in the world according to completely different rules. If 3rd level fighter Mike and 3rd level brute Bob jump off a cliff, Bob is dead and Mike is just out of it until someone can come along and heal him. Thats... goofy.

Personally, I have no problem with main characters playing by different rules than the supporting cast. If Ensign Bob's name ain't on the opening credits, he shouldn't be jumping off any cliffs.

But then again, I think we just have different expectations of just what an RPG should be accomplishing.

 

[Dragonblade]

@Dragonblade & Lizard. You are both incorrect. There is nothing in the 3.5 rules that suggests npcs and monsters die at 0 hit points. They follow the staggered/dying/dead rules just like PCs. Several monsters (like boars) even have special rules that take advantage of this fact.

Thats certainly possible. I can't look anything up right now, but I have played that way since 3e came out 8 years ago. I also played with a couple of different groups in that time period and no one ever played it differently. I always assumed that enemies die at zero was the actual rule. I'll dig out my books tonight after work and take a look.

 

[TerraDave]

The article may help to explain the following from this playtest:

Within moments, the bugbears surrounded Baredd and commenced beating him like a rug. One skull-thump from a mallet the size of a cornie-keg and the paladin's knees wobbled, his eyes rolled back, and he dropped flatter than Sister Agnes. As everyone knows, a bugbear in the presence of a prone figure can't resist kicking it in the ribs. By all accounts, that's their chief joy. No matter if the unlucky creature is the bugbear's grandmother; she's in for a stomping, as was Baredd.

A few swift kicks brought him around again, and Baredd gamely popped back onto his feet. Our relief was premature, because the still-woozy paladin was an easy target for a second smack on the bean. Down he went again, and out came the feet for a second round.

Biggie was confident that Baredd's ribs could stand up to a pretty severe punting. He even wondered whether this was some clever ploy by Baredd to keep the bugbears' attention focused on himself and away from the squishier types (Baredd would later try to confirm this but under notably self-serving conditions).​

 

[heirodule]

Boars should always use the PC option

 

[Voss]

Personally, I have no problem with main characters playing by different rules than the supporting cast. If Ensign Bob's name ain't on the opening credits, he shouldn't be jumping off any cliffs.

But then again, I think we just have different expectations of just what an RPG should be accomplishing.

I don't necessarily think of major villains and NPCs as supporting cast though. Even for the supporting cast, making them two dimensional cutouts depreciates the experience.

This is just another one of the 4e changes that makes me think of Order of the Stick, where the actual characters are aware of the game rules, and are metagaming every loophole for their own benefit. Except they aren't using loopholes anymore, but the game itself is being built for the characters (as well as the players) to exploit the metagame.

 

[Stormtalon]

Thats certainly possible. I can't look anything up right now, but I have played that way since 3e came out 8 years ago. I also played with a couple of different groups in that time period and no one ever played it differently. I always assumed that enemies die at zero was the actual rule. I'll dig out my books tonight after work and take a look.

Well, undead and constructs are destroyed at zero HP, and it's stated such that it's a specific exception from the normal -10 rules, iirc.