New Article: Death and Dying

[JohnSnow]

I also just don't like the set up that PCs are super-duper special guys that operate in the world according to completely different rules. If 3rd level fighter Mike and 3rd level brute Bob jump off a cliff, Bob is dead and Mike is just out of it if someone is there to heal him, or just hits the 5% 'spontaneously regenerates' roll

In any heroic narrative, the heroes of the story operate under "completely different rules" than the rest of the characters in it. If you're not comfortable with that, may I suggest that a different rules system, such as Warhammer, might be more to your taste.

I don't understand the theory that says "I only want my character to be a hero (i.e. exceptionally lucky) if I the player am also lucky." Bob the brute could survive the fall if he rolls low on his hit point damage. With Mike the PC, we just have rules that give him a certain amount of "script immunity" so that the player doesn't have to rely entirely on luck for his character's survival.

Aragorn going over a cliff in The Two Towers anyone? I know it wasn't in the books, but it makes for great drama in the film version. Did you find his survival "unrealistic?"

 

[Dausuul]

Yes, I get what happened from a flavor standpoint.

But there's no getting around the fact that, from a mechanics standpoint, the orc just healed the fighter of a good chunk of HP by stabbing him in the gut.

That bothers me (but, again, I'll have to use the rule for a while to find out how much of a problem it actually is).

It works better if you consider hit points in 4E to be about ten percent actual physical toughness and ninety percent will to live. A lot of the "healing" effects seem to be less about healing per se, and more about a sort of "heroic surge." This would presumably be one of those. The orc didn't heal the fighter, he just triggered a new surge of energy.

If this happened regularly, I'd be more concerned about it, but since you have to roll a natural 20 I'd say it's okay.

 

[heirodule]

Lets rename Hit Points "Hero Points"

 

[Scribble]

Also, here's another pretty absurd corner case:

A fighter has 200 hit points at maximum, and is down to 5 HP. An orc stabs him for 6 points of damage, taking him down to -1. The next round, the fighter rolls a 20, and pops back up with 50 HP. So the orc just healed the fighter for 45 points by stabbing him in the gut.

I know that hit points are abstract, but that's pretty ridiculous.

Eh... I kind of see it as emulating that scene in almost every action movie... The one that comes to mind quickly is The Matrix... Neo and Smith fight in the train station... Neo at one point gets the snot kicked out of him... looks like he's down for the count... But after a moment, he slowly gets up... shakes off a bit... cracks his various joints... then does the come here motion...

 

[Wormwood]

Lets rename Hit Points "Hero Points"

I'd be all for it.

"Plot points" would serve as well.

 

[Professor Phobos]

Clint Eastwood gets nearly beaten to death in A Fistfull of Dollars, but recovers enough to drag himself away. He heals up in a mine and comes back to kill everyone....

 

[Fallen Seraph]

The reason though why it is emulated in most action movies is because it works. In a good action movie, you can't help but smile when your hero gets back up on his feet and continues to kick-ass.

Or in cases where it is last act of being alive, you can't help but feel that character has such a will to live or see his cause through that you got to feel for him.

 

[Dausuul]

The reason though why it is emulated in most action movies is because it works. In a good action movie, you can't help but smile when your hero gets back up on his feet and continues to kick-ass.

And this is less applicable in D&D? I can already envision the situation where the last party member is going down, it looks like a TPK, and then one of his companions rolls that natural 20 and pulls it out... that would make for an extremely cool gnarly session.

 

[Toryx]

I've always played enemies as following the same -10 death rule as the PCs, and I like it that way. I like being able to find a dying bad guy and bring him back to question. I like the possibility of a particularly irritating enemy getting the crap kicked out of him and then somehow pulling himself away from death and getting away. That makes the next confrontation more exciting and raises the stakes (particularly if he comes back with more levels and better magic items).

Bringing villains into the campaign who are every bit as determined to live and are tough to put down just raises the game to a higher level for me. Removing that and making them dead as soon as they drop to 0 is simply unappealing to me.

From the other posts, however, it seems I'm in the minority there. Oh well.

As far the Nat 20 stabilize and heal bit, I hope that's not entirely the case in reality. I'd rather a downed pc who rolls a 20 getting a chance to use a second wind to pop himself back up. From the sounds of it, that'll never bring the guy back to the bloodied threshold, but at least it'll get him back on his feet.

And the 11-19 roll being no change? Love it. Getting knocked down to dying will actually mean something and yet give your allies a chance to save your butt. Works for me.

 

[Michele Carter]

I can already envision the situation where the last party member is going down, it looks like a TPK, and then one of his companions rolls that natural 20 and pulls it out... that would make for an extremely cool gnarly session.

This actually happened in one of Chris Perkins' games. The party was trapped in a room, snakes and nagas and poison everywhere, oh my! Everyone was down to single digit hit points and taking ongoing damage. My warlord's turn came up, she took damage and fell over...and I rolled a 20 on the saving throw. That was just enough to stand rearguard as the rest of the party got the doors open and escaped. If I hadn't rolled that 20, the others wouldn't have been able to work on the door and I'm fairly sure we would have had more than one casualty. So yeah, it was wicked cool gnarly.