New Chat Site?

[Bhryn Astairre]

I'm sorry XD

I shouldn't be laughing but for some reason all the very valid points brought up by Nevine (My Hero?) are making me absolutely die laughing in the very sardonic way they are presented.

But also, stop arguing guys. It's turned from a thread on what we want and are getting from Chat, to personal slapping matches. But with words. Sort of.

I appear to have confused myself.

Ah well, that happens.

Incidentally, just because this aggravates me... is there any way we can get a Bot Spellchecker?

:: giggles ::

I had to ask!!!

:: ducks blows ::

I'm the Spelling Nazi, I -had to ask!-!!! Sowwy!

B xxx

 

[Nevine]

If you others wish to bandy about your insults and comments upon comments about comments made on other's comments commenting on the comments about the comments......

Oh, you mean the entire purpose of a forum?

(get the picture?)

I do believe we are on the same page, yes.

... take it elsewhere.

Wait... What the deuce?

This thread has gone so far off track its rediculous.

I am very sorry if intellectual debate offends you. However, with the exception of the odd post or two that has tried to direct people away from this thread, everyone has been, indeed, on topic. Yes, there are opposing views and I would agree with you if this were a Q&A thread with WOTC_Mel, but it isn't. People have been debating (and disagreeing) with the virtues of iChat vs. Java with a more the fair degree of remaining focused on the situation at hand.

For yourself to call it "off track" and "rediculous" detracts from the thread and goes off topic to the degree of which you are accusing others. In short, I felt the need to inform you, that you are not in a position to tell people to "take it elsewhere", when this is the place for it.

thanks

You're welcome.

Edit: I won't respond further, should you have anymore grievances as, you know, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

[shadow of death]

sigh---it was all in reference to the previous few posts....obviously...not in reference to the entire thread

 

[Jardel]

So where were you doubts two years ago when everyone was attacking wizards for Ichat going down every week and they started this?

Honestly, I don't remember. Which is fine since the technical difficulties experiences with iChat two years ago are not the topic of conversation.

So the number htat currently use Cheetachat to roleplay do so in a less desirable manner because you think so? Get off your high horse.

If you want to use Cheetah Chat to avoid the top frame you are quite welcome, I have never proposed otherwise. What I have stated is that the top frame function is a commonly used feature, and hence desirable to retain. If you don't use it then this shouldn't bother you, all you need to do is include in your list of Pros and Cons a statement like: "I am not bothered by the lack of top frame as I use Cheetachat and have not seen the top frame in years."

I believe I posted that myself at some stage on the old boards back when I used Cheetah because I had a firewall the plugin found disagreeable.

Sure, but that doesn't mean you can make sweeping generalization about the topframes being critical to all forms of RP, it is a valid need to some, but not all as your post made it seem, including it vitally with the descriptions.

There we go with the exagerrating everything to critical again. Please note the topic of discussion is whether it is desirable to roleplay under the new chat, not whether it is possible to roleplay on the new chat. Nobody has disputed that it is possible, however many people have expressed that their experience to date makes roleplaying in the software unenjoyable and hence undesirable.

Because I for one want to make sure Mel and the others know despite the appearance on the boards there are plenty who do appreciate the effort, and remeber the effort, put into this.

Then perhaps you should allow her to ask the questions which are a direct response to her statement that she wants us to know exactly what will and won't be happening so that we can make decisions. Alternatively you may wish to consider posting about the features you enjoy, or send Mel a private message thanking her for her work, or send a Hallmark card to Wizards HQ addressed to Mel of Wizards Online Community.

Better yet you might want to start trying to convince people to use the new chat software as much as possible.

Yes but as the Community is not he product of Wizards but, infact, a service of Wizards (which is the gaming/hobby sector not the service) it is unlikely that people abandoing Wizards Community would have a long term effect as, in the past, more would/will just come and replace those who leave.

Customers come and go in any business, when more customers come than go then you make greater profits, when more customers go than come your profits shrink. The reason Wizards has this community set up is not out of some philanthropist desire to spread love and good will to the world, but because it is one of the best forms of promotion of thier products. Hence they have a vested interest in keeping as many people here as possible.

You work with an IT company, from your previous statments at anyrate, yet you fail to see the diffrences in what Sales promise and what Tech delivers? Or do you, infact, abandon all software that doesn't work, or isn't customizable, in a way the sales personel states it is?

You are correct in your assumption and yes, the greater the differences between what Sales promises and what Tech delivers the more likely the company is to return it or switch to another service. Its unlikely it will be sent back or replaced for having a minor difference, but we recently rejected the latest version of some software in favour of keeping the older because the new software, while more up to date and flashy, didn't fulfill our requirements. Another forum which I happen to be a moderator at changed servers three times in three months because the companies they were hiring were failing to provide services promised.

That's how business works, if you don't get what you need to do your business you don't stay in business.

Yet the endless parade of rats abandoning iChat Rooms doesn't mean that we should take a page from them and start working down a new path to fix as well? No...we should remain with the chat program that the operators of tells us aren't supported because we get a email from a company representive stating they support it.

No. My proposal is I would prefer we keep it because its interface is more suitable for online roleplaying, and according to the company that currently owns the copyright it is still supported. I propose the notion that we need to update it because there's something newer available is silly.

We should believe a company man none of us deal with over Mel who bends over backwards most of the time for us, to make sure we understand the issues at hands?

Did I say that? Let me check.

And oh, I recently emailed DigiChat, the owners of the iChat ROOMS software who bought out GlobalChat and they tell me they're still supporting the software. They just haven't made any new developments in eighteen months. That's what their Media Relations Manager told me anyway.

No. No. What I said was that the company tells me that at this time they do support the software. Now it is possible they stopped providing support at one stage and changed their minds, it's possible they claim to provide support but the support they provide is mediocre at best, there are a world of possiblities and I'm sure if there's something I'm not seeing Mel will happily explain this point further without assuming I or anyone else is a liar based on assumptions from second hand information.

I'm sorry I shall take Mel's word that iChat is not supported anymore, over just about anyone other than Mel's boss stating Mel was wrong in this instance, and even then I am likely to take Mel's word at greater weight.

You do that then. I personally will continue to examine the situation from as many angles and with as much information as possible.

Especially with secondary evidance of fewer and fewer iChat rooms, and the ones that remain being heavily modifed iChat rooms (see Raha).

Actually I would argue the customisation of said chat rooms indicates they are still supported, since usually customising without support is a hellish task for the most part.

Furthermore, the decline of use of a service does not mean it is no longer supported or, more to the point, no longer useful. Typewriters are no longer commonplace, however there are still companies making them, still technicians who will repair them and still law firms in the central New York area who use them in preference to or sometimes alongside computers. Why? Because they still type up great letters and nobody can hack a typewriter and steal information out of it and they already had a safe to lock documents in.

Right, I owe Russell an apology because I insulted his and his company, being annomyous surfer on the internet, I am sure without it he is slowly and painfully dying.

It is considered polite to apologize when you hastily and publically accuse someone of being a liar or incompetent on hearsay.

So far, to be honest, you haven't earned my respect. Yes you earn respect from me from being conceitious not demanding, from showing an iota of respect for others.

So everyone who hasn't individually earned sufficient respect from you is inconsequential to the community? I think you should review your idea of what a community is and how it attracts these new people you are expecting to replace the old.

Also, if you feel that the comment doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't,...

Let me check it again...

where as the older crew leaving is basically meaningless, in all honesty.

Well lets see, I'm practically a dinosaur in terms of the community, my member ship here spans back almost as far as the use of the current chat software on the site. I'm also older than the "average" member (coincidence? I think not).

So when you refer to the "older crew" its includes me whether you like it later or not. So like it or not you stated that whether I stay or is "basically meaningless" based on nothing more than either my age or the duration of my membership.

I'm part of the old crew, the comment applies to me, it is that simple.

but as you felt the need to respond to it, perhaps...just perhaps some little part of you is feeling bad about the way they have being treating the Community that has given them a forum for their Roleplaying.

No. I don't feel sorry for asking Mel the questions that her answering will provide me and others the information she says she wants us to have. I don't feel sorry for saying I don't like something I don't like. Complaints are as necessary to the provision of good service as compliments are, if we don't tell them what we don't like, they can't fix it.

What I do want is for the chatters to have the full set of facts with which to make their decision about staying on or finding greener pastures. Early on, some posts were making statements that I knew were addressed by the software, just not in the exact same manner as in ichat.

In order for Mel to provide the full set of facts, she needs the full set of facts. In order to add anything to her list of things to do, she needs us to tell her we want them done. It's that simple.

 

[Krystal]

*pokes head in*

For all we know, all the site crashing could have been from any number of things, from servers, to power outages, to issues with land lines, etc etc ad nauseum. I do recall that the server names have changed (since I use cheetachat, and I remember the address had been something other than tank a while back... )

So for all we know, the box that ichat was running on crashed... for any number of reasons that might not have been related to ichat.

After all... since then, I've rarely seen it go down too often (except for a week ago, though I attribute that to the whole new chat server open house thing).

 

[Ssussunriyh]

If you others wish to bandy about your insults and comments upon comments about comments made on other's comments commenting on the comments about the comments......(get the picture?) take it elsewhere.

I find myself in total agreement with this particular sentiment. A post that breaks up someone else's post into a dozen tiny little quotes, each quote followed by a rebuttal to that particular comment, makes an unreadable mess of the entire thread. I'm trying to sort out the actual discussion from the back-and-forth confrontation, but it seems that the latter outweighs the former.

Either agree to disagree, or kindly take your private arguments to another forum.

 

[Nevine]

I can only assume, since everyone likes to make broad, generalized statements these days instead of speaking to someone directly, that the "you're arguing too much, so I'll make a post about it to drag things further off topic" statements include myself and a few other posters. So...

I'm sorry that I have made you either, use your mouse wheel or Page Down button to scroll past my posts.

I am also sorry if you have found the thread to be unreadable because of it, however it strikes me you must be possessed of a severe reading disorder to find it so. In which case, I am double sorry.

Funnily enough, I also find your timing impeccable, as the comments pop up at the apparent end of the "arguement".

Anyway, much like the posts I am addressing, this post has absolutely nothing to do with the current topic. I just felt the need to say something before a gaggle of people decided to start echoing each other. We should maybe get back on topic. And agree to disagree. Right? Right.

Edit: For future reference.
I will now demonstrate the proper way to have handled this situation.

Internetiquette 101

Darrius, Jardel, and Nevine:

If, by chance, it isn't too must trouble, I would like to make a request of the three of you. I would rather not put you three on ignore, as you may make points later on that I could possibly desire to comment on or make my own points of. I am eager to read Mel's responses and I do not wish to lose track of what she is saying. Thus, I would appreciate it if you could please wrap this discussion up, perhaps create your own thread, correspond in private, or wait until Mel has decided she is finished with this thread and continue thereafter. Thank you, I am very grateful.

Sincerely,
Poster with manners
​

As you can see, you can speak directly to a person(s) and express your grievance. You do not have to make snarky off-hand/veiled remarks or issue commands as if you were that person(s) superior. I cannot speak for anyone else, but I would have heeded such a polite request.

In closing, if you feel the need to be a smart "aleck" and copy me verbatim, don't. Thank you.

Remember kids, knowing is half the battle!

G.I. JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOE!

 

[Chitara]

Dear pot, kettle, and any other relevant equiptment,

Others in the kitchen have been having difficulty hearing orders over clamour that you have been making. The recipe that we have been working on does not call for the blending of ingredients at boiling temperature as that can cause curdling in the mix. You may need to consider time in the refrigerator to chill.
When contributions are again at room temperature or close enough it is easier to continue with the work. However if some equiptment is intent on steaming everything, perhaps they had be better put outside the kitchen door.
By the way, I thought we had ordered all the metal equiptment in chrome finished stainless steel so whoever's black should report to the sinks for scrubbing.

Thank you,
The Wooden Spoon.



No, seriously. The point of joining a discussion to to make your suggestions and opinions heard but to do so means that others need to be able to read them. It's been really hard for me to even want to read the thread with all the ________. Yes, I have a scroll wheel on my mouse but it occurs to me that maybe - just maybe - there are valid points hidden amongst all the chaff and I should think that anyone bothering to read and respond to these serious threads would want to be considered as making a contribution, not just passed over as "oh no, not another one from player Z". Valid points are in there... lets just focus on the software and what we think it needs, not who said what.

Besides. Scrollers still have to stop and read to see if they've gotten past it. heh


Now.
As I see it the problem is atmosphere. I know someone's brought it up before, or was it in one of my messenger conversations? ISRP is fun for me because I can suspend reality a lil and imagine what's going on. Things like "player says, " instead of <player>: help out. So does the ability to pull up descriptions or read "whispered" stuff (PMs) on the same stretch of text rather than another window/tab. And for that matter, so does having a lil more supporting info visible and an image relevant to the setting.

Yes, I know there're various ways to message someone on the new software. But one of them I find tricky (and I don't know how it comes up anyway), another means having to flick to another tab all the time and the third seems so damn easy to foul up it's frustrating. That's an irritation to me.

The login time Mel said she's working on. I agree that having my name logged "in" even if not "on" (if you know what I mean) is a lil worrying but its no different from having the boards remembering who's logged into this comp. I don't log myself out of the boards every time unless I know another player is going it use it.

Hmm... what else?
Oh, I hope the problem I had earlier today in getting the boards to log out one name and log on another isn't because of the chat. That'll be a real pain in the backside.

That's all I can think of right now.

- Chitara

 

[Nevine]

I sure got "told", yep. Wait, wait.. Nope.

Anyway.

There are times during the day when the boards enter a proverbial death throe of lag, this tends to happen fairly regularly. Today, I tried to login to the new chat during this time and was, of course, unable to do so. My questions are...

If I were in the chat during one of these spikes, would the messages we're sending be affected?

Is there a way to keep the chats from being so intimately tied to the boards that what happens to the forums will be detrimental to the chat?

 

[WizO_Adele]

I know Mel hasn't had a chance to check back in yet, but I've been following this thread and I wanted to make a few requests.

This thread will be most helpful to Melanie and the community overall if everyone focuses on expressing their concerns, asking their questions, and listing their requests and technical issues they would like to see fixed regarding the new chat software.

While it is highly tempting to respond to someone else's commentary, concerns, venting or whatever it is filling up this thread with banter and exchanges. I'm not going to discourage those per se, but as Melanie asked to be able to use this thread as a means to address questions/concerns and issues it will be very difficult for her to do so effectively if she's lagged down with a lot of off track discussions.

I, myself, have been having a hard time following this as well, and were I the person having to weed through it, it would take me days to do so which would be very discouraging. As Melanie has limited time, the more efficient she can be in reading the more thorough and attentive she can be in addressing.

If we need to separate this thread out into two threads - one for Melanie and one for discussion amongst each other - I can assign a moderator to do so. Otherwise, let's please try and keep it in a succinct and simpe format Melanie can easily address,