New Divine Might [WOTC boards]

[Shard O'Glase]

I think it's OK. As a paladin (or blackguard), you won't use turning in its original usage, anyway, but will get a lot of bonus damage due to your high charisma and high BAB (which means many attacks). A cleric also has a nice option for his turning if he isn't cleansing yet another crypt of the walking dead.

A bonus to attack is too much if you ask me (and also if not). Particularly for paladins (blackguards), this would mean you get your two highest ability scores to both attack and damage. That would be just plain sick.

Still sucks, even if it gives an alternative to a useless ability.(go paladins ).

specialization +2 to ever attack with the weapon your likely using almsot every round or a +4-6ish to one round of attacks a few times a day. Seems to be a bad feat to me in the intended number of fights per day campaign. In a game with a few big fights per day it may be ok, or if you are built around this one feat and have an absurd CHR it will be good but your character will be overall subpar in a fight.

 

[Shadeus]

It seems like a hefty cost. Both power attack and yet another feat. I wouldn't call PA on the high list of feats for a paladin. I will say I've never come close to using all my turning attempts as a 19 Cha paladin though...so you do have some to burn.

How about just two rounds with a bonus to damage? The first one that suggests a new feat Extended Divine Might gets a fat lip!

 

[Endur]

In 3.5, every adventurer who swings a weapon should have power attack. Necessary for getting through DR. Especially with the 2 to 1 damage that PA now does.

With regards to Turning Attempts, my Paladin always adventured with a cleric. So the only time my Paladin ever used his turns, was when there were literally hundreds of undead, too many for the cleric to turn them all.

Charisma generally is the highest stat a Paladin has. A chr of 26 is not unheard of for a Paladin of level 16. (chr 16, +4 levels, +6 enhancment).

That is +8 to damage for 11 rounds. That's a nice benefit from one feat.

It seems like a hefty cost. Both power attack and yet another feat. I wouldn't call PA on the high list of feats for a paladin. I will say I've never come close to using all my turning attempts as a 19 Cha paladin though...so you do have some to burn.

How about just two rounds with a bonus to damage? The first one that suggests a new feat Extended Divine Might gets a fat lip!

 

[jgsugden]

This is a devastating ability.

A cleric or paladin that doesn't see this as a highly valuable feat is overlooking the obvious. To me, it is an obvious 3rd feat (behind PA and cleave) for any paladin that fights in melee.

How useful is it? Let's look at a 12th level paladin with a 20 charisma (started at 14 or 16 and has a +6 or +4 enhancement bonus). We'll give him a 22 strength, a +3 flaming greatsword and nothing else relevant.

His AB will be +21/+16/+11. His damage on average (ignoring criticals) without the feat will be 22.5. With the feat, it will be 27.5.

Against a Purple Worm (CR 12) with an AC 19, without using the feat, his optimal use of power attack (-4/+8) leads to an expected damage of 64.05 points per full attack round.

If he uses the feat, his optimal power attack remains at (-4/+8) and results in an expected damage of 74.55 points per round. An increase of 10.5 points of damage per round for 8 rds per day.

84 points of expected damage from one feat. That is a heck of a lot. What feat available to a paladin will get him close to that amount of extra damage. Weapon Focus? That would increase his expected damage from 64.05 to 68.25, an increase of only 4.2 points of damage per round. He'd need to attack for 20 rds of full attacks for the weapon focus to match this bonus! That is a lot of combat.

This is, of course, a simplification. Being able to cleave will increase the number of attacks available to this character. Not being able to full attack due to movement will have an effect on this character. But these numbers show what a huge advantage this feat can offer.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

It seems like a hefty cost. Both power attack and yet another feat. I wouldn't call PA on the high list of feats for a paladin. I will say I've never come close to using all my turning attempts as a 19 Cha paladin though...so you do have some to burn.

How about just two rounds with a bonus to damage? The first one that suggests a new feat Extended Divine Might gets a fat lip!

3.5 Power Attack is quite different from 3.0 Power Attack. For many builds, it used to be a dud feat. For Paladins, Power Attack + Improved Crit + Blessed Weapon can rack up some nasty damage averages against evil opponents.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Weapon Focus? That would increase his expected damage from 64.05 to 68.25, an increase of only 4.2 points of damage per round. He'd need to attack for 20 rds of full attacks for the weapon focus to match this bonus! That is a lot of combat.

Good lord, man, that is some dry talk there. Do players in your group actually go into this much mathematical depth when choosing feats?

The paladin in our party just took the 3.0 version of the feat because he said "Hey, cool, now I have something to do with my never used Turn Undead power". There was no statistical breakdown of how many extra points of damage per day it would add.

Put my vote down for "The old one may have been a little too good (as a free action, not as a standard one), but the new one is junk".

DS

 

[jgsugden]

Good lord, man, that is some dry talk there. Do players in your group actually go into this much mathematical depth when choosing feats?

I have a history with math. When I see a math problem, I do it. I just have that type of mind. It helps me as a DM to create encounters that look horrifyingly difficult, yet are really balanced in favor of the PCs. I can't count the number of battles where the players have scowled at me and grunted 'How the hell are we supposed to win this!' ... only to throw down their enemies and beam with pride at beating my 'impossible' challenge.

As for other players doing that type of math: There is usually at least one player in every group that goes into the math and seeks out the optimal configurations. Even if they can't do the math themself, they'll take a quick glance on some of the min-max boards and threads out there and pick up a few of the exploitable ideas. If you think there is nobody in your group that has an idea of how to min-max power attack, you're kidding yourself.

 

[hong]

Hunter of the dead I guess gets a revamping in the Complete Warrior. I'm really looking forward to that...no turn progression sucks. It works well with that character because of the bonus Extra Turning feats.

I have to agree it was very powerful as it was before. But one round? That's brutal.

So do it again the next round. And the next round. And the round after that. With paladin-level Cha, you're not likely to run out of turning attempts.

 

[Darklone]

Hmm, this change might make some paladin archer builds worthwhile... Interesting.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

Hmm, this change might make some paladin archer builds worthwhile... Interesting.

If you like paladin-archers, Darklone, you should check out ChainMailBikini's Penitant Sniper. 15-level prestige class they have for free on their web site. It's in the Call of Duty preview pdf.