New Divine Might [WOTC boards]
- Thread starter Shadeus
- Start date
Kae'Yoss
First Post
Don't forget that specialization binds you to a single weapon type. A paladin has little that binds him to one sort of weapon, and this power works with every weapon he uses (e.g. his melee weapon and his ranged weapon, or his sword as default weapon and his cudgel against the undead, or for the axe he found and that replaces his morningstar, which is inferior to the axe).Shard O'Glase said:
Also, as the character gains ever more charisma, the feat gets better and better, giving more damage in more rounds (and, as specialization, with more attacks per round).
I dare you to point me to the place in the core rules where they say what number of fights is intended for your average campaign. I'm sure you won't find such a thing.
The CR System might imply something like that, though. According to the CR system, you can fight 4 "challenging" fights per day (and the 5th may well be fatal). Let's say they last an average of 3 rounds, and we have an average of 12 rounds of fighting per day. There might be less fights, because you get to hit a big guy, but this will probably take you longer, so it evens out. With easier fights, you will probably not need the extra damage anyway, or the fights are really short, so oth cases won't change the number of rounds significantly (I won't enter the demiplane of mathematics on this one, though).
Your average paladin will have at least Cha 18 (15 or 16 base, put one point in at 4th, and +2 from Item) when he gets the feat. This means that you get +4 to your damage rolls in 7 out of 12 rounds each day. Slightly more than you get from weapon specialization (2 attacks/round, 12 rounds, 2 points damage = 48 for power attack; 2 attacks/round, 7 rounds, 4 points of damage = 56 for divine might)
On level 12, a fighter will have greater weapon specialization, so he gets +6 with two feats, in 12 rounds. The paladin will have Cha 22 (15 or 16 base, 3 points for level-ups, and +4 from an item), and his second feat for this will be extra turning. So he gets +6 on every of his three attacks (like the fighter) in 13/12 rounds. So it is, FWIW, the same. Improved Weapon Focus might help the fighter hit petter, but the paladin will be able to raise his Cha even higher, so this will grant him even more power than greater weapon specialization.
The real hitter with this feat isn't the paladin or the cleric. It's the blackguard. This guy will probably have weapon specialization (and if you make a ftr/blk built instead the common ftr/rog/blk, even greater specialization) and this feat. That's scary.
Dungeon Crawls are not the norm. I actually see it often that the party has only a couple of fights.
High charisma is never absurd for a paladin, and he hasn't to built the character around this feat either. He really only has to spend a single feat for this (power attack is almost a natural choice for paladins, which are heavy hitters) and the high charisma is normal for him. Of course the fighter will be better in combat, but he's supposed to.
AeroDm
First Post
I actually really enjoy the powered down version. A paladin should always have a high charisma seeing as many of their class features are dependent upon it, and this high cha then gives them more turn attempts.
I can understand some people's hesitation to the duration of 1 round, but as a free action it isn't that bad. I would consider increasing it though to perhaps 1 round +1 / 5 levels of turn undead. Thus a 20th level cleric would expend one usage to gain it for 5 rounds (quite powerful, but this is at 20th level) and a 20th level paladin would gain it for 4 rounds. However, paladins have higher charisma bonuses so they could do it more often for more damage, equaling out in the long run.
I can understand some people's hesitation to the duration of 1 round, but as a free action it isn't that bad. I would consider increasing it though to perhaps 1 round +1 / 5 levels of turn undead. Thus a 20th level cleric would expend one usage to gain it for 5 rounds (quite powerful, but this is at 20th level) and a 20th level paladin would gain it for 4 rounds. However, paladins have higher charisma bonuses so they could do it more often for more damage, equaling out in the long run.
jgsugden
Legend
You know, I don't consider this powered down. I consider it powered up.AeroDm said:
In the DotF version of DiMi, the feat was only useful for about 1 rd per use anyway. Many rounds of the duration usually took place outside of combat. Some of the rds spent in combat didn't actually help the PC: Even if the PC did more damage, it didn't actually help the PC take that foe down faster because the increase in damage did not result in fewer attacks being needed to kill that foe. You couldn't know how useful it would be when you activated it because the combat situations were too remote to make a difference. You might activate this feat and charge into combat expecting to fight the big bad guy, but instead find yourself cut off by his army of minions en route and find the entire usage of the feat wasted because your normal attack damage was sufficient to take those enemies down by itself without the feat. Plus, you'd have lost the action used to activate the feat. Plus, the bad guy could delay the party a few rounds and then go into battle when the duration expired, resulting in the paladin either sacrificing a round of attacks to reactivate the feat or going without it.
In the CoWa version, the feat is activated round by round. If the paladin charges forward to face the big bad guy and gets caught in battle with the minions first, he doesn't need to start activating the feat until he thinks it will make a difference in that round of combat. A BBEG hiding behind his minions can't just wait out the duration of the feat.
When considered in these lights, I think this new version may in fact be more useful in a smart player's hands.
James McMurray
First Post
Shard O'Glase said:
Of course, paladins can't get specialization, and fighters can't get Divine Might, so the comparison between the two doesn't really amount to all that much, does it?
jgsugden
Legend
James McMurray said:
They can't normally cross these lines, but a multiclass PC can get access to both. If I had a high charisma fighter, I'd be inclined to grab one level of cleric (or a prestige class that grants turning at first level) to get this feat. A fighter that takes a level of cleric could gain a few useful domain powers as well as this feat and some healing spells or minor beneficial magics.
A paladin that began as a fighter might have weapon specialization.
A blackguard PC could easily have both abilities, as could a Hospitaler or a Holy Liberator.
Storminator
First Post
Since it's a free action to activate, it's easy to use only on those rounds you get the full attack. That's a worthwhile perk.
Seems like a very useful feat to me.
PS
Seems like a very useful feat to me.
PS
James McMurray
First Post
jgsugden said:
Then you'd just be parrtially making up for having given yourself a lower strength score, but it cost you a feat to do it. Where's the problem?
If you multiclass, you're shortchanging yourself on other abilities, so its (fairly) balanced. Its certainly better than the original version as far as balance is concerned.
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
James McMurray said:
I think a mid-level FighterX/Cleric1 with a high Str and a modest Cha bonus would do better. At levels 10+ you can afford to have both a Str and Cha boosting item. For the cost of one feat (you probably have Power Attack anyway) you get a +2 or +3 on damage for five or six rounds per day on top of whatever Specialization goodness you happen to have.
The domain abilities, boost to Will save, and a few spells are more than a fair trade for +1 BAB, and +1 HP.
Have your cake and eat it too.
