New Haste - Does it Fix Your Concerns?

[ashockney]

Changes to Quicken to spell

In our experience (playing two campaigns through 20th level) this will significantly unbalance the advantage to swing back to melee from spellcasters.

Granted, the spellcasters were definitely overpowered from 7th - 14th level. But this change is too dramatic a swing, and will really cut off arcane casters at the knee above 14th.

I LOVE the d20 modern version listed in this post. That seems much more reasonable, and doesn't ratchet up the melee classes quite as significantly. Longer lasting buffs are always better!

The other thing that could save haste, keeping the change as is would be to fix the MEA requirement of sorcerers to use feats, and then change quicken from 4 levels to 2 levels. That would probably balance much closer to fighters getting an extra STANDARD (no longer partial) action each round. Did anyone at Winter Fantasy, or elsewhere, hear this kind of change in the works. If you did this two-sided kind of change, it would be more balanced, and would certainly make the "quicken spell" feat and the use of "quickened spells" a must for all casters.

 

[Klaus]

The new haste sounds awfully like the 2nd-level Sor/Wiz spell "Rapid Strikes", which appeared in Dragon Magazine #274 (Allastaire's Augmentations or somesuch). That spell provided the recipient with an extra attack at his highest BAB every round. Not another action (like haste) but another attack.

 

[ashockney]

That was also an excellent point. If you drop the level on haste, it makes it much more palatable for a wiz/sor to mem it. Then maybe you have a higher level version of haste that grants the standard action each round, which would fix the high-level discrepancy with casters, but force them to "pay a little more" to get that extra standard action each round. I wouldn't mind seeing the duration on that higher level spell cut significantly either, say to 1 rd/5 levels or so (Max 4 rounds at 20th).

 

[Henry]

Did it make me happy. Nah. I'd still prefer to see haste (the current haste) moved to 4th or 5th level, and move mass haste to 8th or 9th level. They are extremely powerful spells; I say keep them powerful, but move their availability more in line with appropriate levels of play.

 

[Gez]

So, haste should be renamed frenzy. It don't make you faster (you don't run faster when hasted, since you can't gain a move action), you can't cast more spells, drink more potions, type more words on a keyboards, etc. All you can do is attacking more.

If two spells per round was really an issue (I still don't think it is -- try to simply spread the encounters a bit more, so the spellcaster will find himself depleted of spells if he's feeling too machinegunning), the idea of making haste a full-round action to cast was ten times better.

And Quicken Spell, if unchanged, sucked before and still suck now. Nerfing haste won't make it more lovable -- especially from a sorcerer or bard point of view* -- it will just nerf the wizard and sorcerers a bit more. They sure needed it, everyone has issues with magicians doing magic stuff.

* Yeah, so to use that feat I must take another feat before, when I don't get bonus feats contrarily to figthers and wizards, and I have to forsake what makes the flavor and the asset of my way of spellcasting, the spontaneous casting. Of course, I still don't have as a trade-of the possibiliy to benefit from the wizard's asset, the ability to know more spells -- and I won't speak about clerics and druids, who know automatically all spells without having to pay time and money.

 

[Nail]

Don't we wish!

And if wishes were horses.....

....then again: who ever settled for just a horse!

 

[Gez]

Boots of Speed are now Boots of Beating With A Stick More Often ! Yay !

I just wanted to say I found it oh so logical and flavorful. You put your boots, and it affects your arms. Unless they revised the boots so that they only allow you to make an extra attack action with your leg. Kick ! Kick !

 

[SimonMoon5]

Re: Re: New Haste - Does it Fix Your Concerns?

Nobody misses seeing the Sorcerer cast three spells a round (haste, quickened, standard).

Of course, Sorcerers can't make use of quicken spell, since adding a metamagic feat to one of his spells makes it a full round action. So now sorcerers can never cast more than one spell a round.

 

[Piratecat]

Re: Re: Re: New Haste - Does it Fix Your Concerns?

Of course, Sorcerers can't make use of quicken spell, since adding a metamagic feat to one of his spells makes it a full round action. So now sorcerers can never cast more than one spell a round.

I bet they change that. You're surely not the only person to point this out.

 

[Fenes 2]

So, haste should be renamed frenzy. It don't make you faster (you don't run faster when hasted, since you can't gain a move action), you can't cast more spells, drink more potions, type more words on a keyboards, etc. All you can do is attacking more.

As was said before, the old 2E haste doubled your attack, but not your spellcasting. Back to the roots, it seems, and no renaming neccessary.