New Haste - Does it Fix Your Concerns?

[Default Name Player]

Gez - I know you're being sarcastic, but you're just being silly.

How about this: keep playing regular 3e. Or heck, just house rule Revised 3e that "Haste is the same as original 3e". Like someone else has mentioned, it's about "choice" so why don't you keep choosing to play regular 3e? (or keep using original 3e Haste?) There's nothing wrong with that, and I'm sure many people out there will continue to do so (and possibly picking and choosing some of the new 3e revision items to add in)

In terms of balance, this change will make Haste a "potential spell to take" and not a "must have spell". If it's just PREFERENCE, hey...it's your game, do whatever you like! (again: choice!)

Really, some people here need to stop getting so excited: "house rules" has been in the gaming lexicon since the beginning. It's not like this new Haste rule is being hardwired into the game so that the whole thing falls apart if Haste is used differently.

 

[KnowTheToe]

I like the changes, to me I like variey and any must have spell hurts the flavor of the game and usually means it is at least minorly broken. I would rather have wizards ponder over their choices of spells rather than every one have the same or nearly the same spell list. It is a good fix.

 

[Gez]

Gez - I know you're being sarcastic, but you're just being silly.

So these don't stack ? They do have different names.

How about this: keep playing regular 3e.

I was probably too much cryptic when I said "I prefer to stay in the branches", but that was what I meant.

In terms of balance, this change will make Haste a "potential spell to take" and not a "must have spell".

First, I've nothing against the existence of must have. Wish is a must have. Cure light wounds is a must have.

Then, IMHO, the revision change haste from "must have" to "worthless" status.

Really, some people here need to stop getting so excited: "house rules" has been in the gaming lexicon since the beginning. It's not like this new Haste rule is being hardwired into the game so that the whole thing falls apart if Haste is used differently.

Of course, house rules, of course, rule zero. Everyone knows that.

But may I just make the respectful remark that if a revision increases the number of house rules, then there's a problem ? The aim is to reduce the need for them, not to increase it. If such was the case, they could as well adopt the Storyteller's system, where just everything needs to and is house-ruled.

 

[Klaus]

While I don't know which version of Haste I like (never had anyone use it in any of my games), consider these spells:

Expeditious Retreat (1st level) - Doubles your speed
Mage Armor (1st level) - Grants you a +4 bonus to AC
Rapid Strikes (2nd level; Dragon 274) - Grants an additional attack/round

Now roll all three into one spell, and it's at least 4th level (if you add the levels of the separate components).

BTW, I'm rule-0ing that the spell you need for a weapon of speed is Rapid Strikes, not Haste.

 

[KnowTheToe]

While I don't know which version of Haste I like (never had anyone use it in any of my games), consider these spells:

Expeditious Retreat (1st level) - Doubles your speed
Mage Armor (1st level) - Grants you a +4 bonus to AC
Rapid Strikes (2nd level; Dragon 274) - Grants an additional attack/round

Now roll all three into one spell, and it's at least 4th level (if you add the levels of the separate components).

BTW, I'm rule-0ing that the spell you need for a weapon of speed is Rapid Strikes, not Haste.

Good analysis.

 

[F5]

To quote Mr, Horse, "Nosir, I don't like it".

I agree with those who have said this revised spell shoudln't be called Haste, but Frenzy instead. An extra attack and an AC bonus doesn't simulate moving faster in any believable way.

I do think the original haste is overpowered. I don't like the idea of any one spell that is so good you HAVE to have it in order to keep up with other casters, and in fairness that's what the current version of Haste is.

I guess if they added in the extra 30 feet of movement that the d20 Modern version has, I'd feel better about it. As is, IMC this spell is getting re-named "frenzy", and Expeditious Retreat is getting re-named "haste".

 

[Frostmarrow]

To quote Mr, Horse, "Nosir, I don't like it".

I agree with those who have said this revised spell shoudln't be called Haste, but Frenzy instead. An extra attack and an AC bonus doesn't simulate moving faster in any believable way.

I do think the original haste is overpowered. I don't like the idea of any one spell that is so good you HAVE to have it in order to keep up with other casters, and in fairness that's what the current version of Haste is.

I guess if they added in the extra 30 feet of movement that the d20 Modern version has, I'd feel better about it. As is, IMC this spell is getting re-named "frenzy", and Expeditious Retreat is getting re-named "haste".

Haste makes you faster so the spell should affect the following: Speed, initiative, armor class and reflex saves. I don't think speed has got anything to do with how often you can attack. Attacking comes from experience and skill. However with celerity comes the ability to move quicker, move out of the way quicker and react quicker. Say you gain first strike, improved evasion, better AC and double movement from the spell. How's that?

 

[Drew]

Hmmm...

Blah blah blah. Blah blah blah. Blah blah blah.

 

[Arnwyn]

Hmmm...

Blah blah blah. Blah blah blah. Blah blah blah.

I wish I had the guts to increase my post count by wasting bandwith like that...

The changes to Haste are fantastic - much more like the (far superior) previous versions. Something that allows two AOE automatic-hitting attacks in one round without taking a feat? Not IMC.

 

[Henry]

Frostmarrow, you just gave me a brilliant idea. House ruling haste to give you a +8 enhancement bonus to your Dexterity, and doubling your movement. The reason being that it speeds your reaction time, which can give you the APPEARANCE of a higher dexterity. You get a +4 bonus to your AC, a +4 bonus to your initiative, and the move bonus gives you the movement you need to be considered hasted.

I think I'll search house rules, and post this there if it hasn't ever been proposed before.