New Haste - Does it Fix Your Concerns?

[Gez]

Nice take Henry. That's another fix proposed on that thread that's better than the official one.

Although I wouldn't make it an enhancement bonus -- if that's only an illusion, as you put it, the Dex is augmented. A haste bonus to Dex. (And that would make it stackable with cat's grace, which seems logical based on the premise.)

 

[Frostmarrow]

Nice take Henry. That's another fix proposed on that thread that's better than the official one.

Although I wouldn't make it an enhancement bonus -- if that's only an illusion, as you put it, the Dex is augmented. A haste bonus to Dex. (And that would make it stackable with cat's grace, which seems logical based on the premise.)

Avoid using Dex as we don't want it enhancing your aim...

 

[ashockney]

I like the idea of a short duration +8 to Dex, along with a move bump. I'd suggest the move bump be level dependent as well (ie, 5' bump every 2 levels max 25' bump at 10th). Just a thought. That's a good 3rd level spell.

I also really liked the analysis that compared Expeditious Retreat, Mage Armor, and Rapid Strike. I would note however that Exp Ret is 1 shot, and Mage Armor doesn't stack with everything like a haste bonus, therefore you're probably looking at closer to 5th level. Just IMO.

Regarding the proposed changes to Haste...I think I support them. Given the following...I can live with the "flavor" changes to a spell titled "HASTE". It's not like they actually "slowed you down" and called it haste. I also agree with this analysis:

Quicken Spell; +4 levels = Haste; 3rd Level Spell?

Absolutely not. Duh.

This doesn't change the fact, however, that an arcane spellcaster above 12th level will not be able to "keep up" with all his "hasted" melee companions. So I hope they have a fix in there somewhere for that! If not, rule 0 to the rescue!

Another interesting side note. It sounds like they missed a really obvious change, that I'm diappointed in. According to the scoop page, there's no changes in metamagic feats.

Quicken spell = +4 spell levels
Maximize spell = +3 spell levels

Apply to fireball.
Maximize doubles the average damage.
Quicken doubles the average damage (by casting twice).

Quicken = Maximize? Whoops!

I think Quicken should be a +3 not +4 (and I'm suggesting this based on the fact that if you look at the example above, a Maximized or Quickened Fireball is closer to a 6th level damage spell than a 7th level damage spell, in terms of average damage. In both instances, the 6th and 7th level damage spells should eventually become progressively better to cast from 11th - 15th level than the "maximized" or "quickened" versions.

We came up with this formula, which isn't necessarily a "universal truth" for all spells, but seems like a pretty simple gauge, and I'm a little "worried" about what else was and wasn't changed in the "revision" if this one got missed.

 

[Gez]

Avoid using Dex as we don't want it enhancing your aim...

Hmmm... Why not ? One aim better given more time, so it's not overly clunky to say one can aim better in the same time if he's speeded up (and thus, from his own point of view, has more time).

Note that it will also enhance his melee attacks with finessed weapons, and again there's a rational for that.

 

[Nifft]

I'd like it if you could use the Partial Action as you saw fit, within some constraints on what can happen in a round. Here are my rules:

You may cast AT MOST 2 spells per round, one Quickened and one normal.

A magic item can be used AT MOST once per round, unless it is a Quickened spell-completion or spell-trigger item, in which case it can be used AT MOST twice.

So, a Hasted Wizard could cast a spell and use a wand in one round, but not cast two spells or use the same wand twice.

-- Nifft

 

[Henry]

Hmmm... Why not ? One aim better given more time, so it's not overly clunky to say one can aim better in the same time if he's speeded up (and thus, from his own point of view, has more time).

I agree here. Look at the Spider-man Movie, in the fight scene with flash Thompson. In a fantastically done scene, we saw what Peter Parker saw, which was Flash's moves telegraphed a MILE away due to his phenomenal speed. To him, fights happened in slow motion, hence the ability to not only dodge blows, but to place his own better.

The reason I suggested Enhancement Bonus? Because I think it would be overkill to Let it stack with other Dex enhancers. It's not just cat's grace you're talking about - it's Gauntlets of dexterity +6, and multiply-empowered Cat's Graces (which is allowable by the D&D FAQ). Having a character with about a +12 to +20 to DEX is a little TOO far off the boat, I would assert.

 

[Gez]

At least it don't add to damage...

There are ways to get such huge bonuses to Strength (notably with spells that increase the size, or with polymorph self combos), so I don't think it's so great an issue.

But then again, Dex adds to more things than Strength: attack, AC, init, reflex saves, and several skills, against attack, damage, load, and skills.

Hmmm.

 

[Henry]

For those interested in continuing discussion on Henry's Hoojibulous Haste (like my freaky title?) you can take it up here:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39104

 

[muhcashin]

Attack...

So now a hasted creatures can make one extra attack. And from what I understand an extra attack means hitting your foes one extra time. I thought that spells counted as attacks too. According to invisibility, an "attack" includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. So when I read the news, hastewas pretty much the same.

 

[officeronin]

Give this man a prize. This has jogged my post-con haze and I remember Skip Williams talking about this very thing at the revised 3e meeting. Haste will be a lot like its 2nd Edition predecessor. Not completely like it, but it will be more in line with its 2nd edition lineage.

Except that the 1st and 2nd edition haste doubled your attacks -- not just "one more".

I can't see taking it Haste 3.5. The duration is too short to be a buff spell for others and the effect is miniscule. The +4 to AC is horrid compared to shield and mage armor, which both last longer, and the shield gives more AC.

Officeronin