New Magic Item Cost
- Thread starter Trainz
- Start date
James McMurray
First Post
Generally, items have only one caster level, and all powers on the item work at that caster level. With the caster level 25 power, that would increase the cost of the rest of the power.
Constant divine favor would cost a little or a lot,depending on how rules lawyery the creator is. The cheapest version would use:
1 * 25 * 2000 * 4 (duration) * 1.5 (secondary property) = 300,000gp
Another way to look at it would be:
6 * 6 * 2500 * 10 (epic bonus squared in a second property) = 900,000gp for the plus to hit. and another 900,000gp for the plus to damage, for a total of 1,800,000gp for constant divine favor.
You could also mke it persistent divine favor castable once per day. That would drop the cost to:
5 * 25 * 1800/5 * 1.5 = 67,500gp
It would also leave it more vulnerable to dispelling.
Note that the first option is correct per the constant spell rules, whereas the second version is correct per the "item provides a bonus" rules. The bonus version of the rules is what is actually used in the DMG, otherwise bracers of armor +4 would cost 2,000gp for mage armor constant.
Constant divine favor would cost a little or a lot,depending on how rules lawyery the creator is. The cheapest version would use:
1 * 25 * 2000 * 4 (duration) * 1.5 (secondary property) = 300,000gp
Another way to look at it would be:
6 * 6 * 2500 * 10 (epic bonus squared in a second property) = 900,000gp for the plus to hit. and another 900,000gp for the plus to damage, for a total of 1,800,000gp for constant divine favor.
You could also mke it persistent divine favor castable once per day. That would drop the cost to:
5 * 25 * 1800/5 * 1.5 = 67,500gp
It would also leave it more vulnerable to dispelling.
Note that the first option is correct per the constant spell rules, whereas the second version is correct per the "item provides a bonus" rules. The bonus version of the rules is what is actually used in the DMG, otherwise bracers of armor +4 would cost 2,000gp for mage armor constant.
Just make it use activated isntead of command word, like boots of haste. Then you just need to figure out what the use is.. something like flexing your muscles in a particular way, or tapping it.. I'm sure you can come up with something that sounds neat and could still reasonably be considered a free action.
(Example in SRD of boots of haste... click heels together as a free action to activate item)
Funnily enough, the cost isn't much different from command word activated, which just goes to reinforce that the pricing for magic items is very much a guideline, and final pricing is determined by the gm.
Relevant snippet:
Command word is spell level x caster level x 1800
Use activared is spell level x caster level x 2000
So slightly over 11% more expensive.
(Example in SRD of boots of haste... click heels together as a free action to activate item)
Funnily enough, the cost isn't much different from command word activated, which just goes to reinforce that the pricing for magic items is very much a guideline, and final pricing is determined by the gm.
Relevant snippet:
3.5 SRD said:
Command word is spell level x caster level x 1800
Use activared is spell level x caster level x 2000
So slightly over 11% more expensive.
dcollins
Explorer
Diirk said:
First, that doesn't make any sense -- the whole idea of "use activated" is the normal usage of the item ("drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield", etc., etc. per DMG). Use-activated items per the book are usually either one-shot or continually functioning items, not charged. Making up some random gesture to avoid command-word-activation breaks that system pretty gratuitously.
Second (and for example), activating boots of haste does in fact require a command-word activation. See the FAQ.
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Sure it gratuitously breaks the system, but so do alot of other things you can do with magic items (esp continuous spell effects), thats why its stated that its only a guideline, and final prices are up to the GM.
Dunno how much more clear it can get that 'as a free action', and there's nothing about it in the errata... which faq? I didn't see a link to it in the SRD stickied post, so I have no clue how official it is.
There's plenty of examples of this sort of item... bag of tricks is the same way, except its trigger (throwing a ball from the bag) is most definately a standard action. Useable 10/week.
Or a cloak of the bat - 7 minutes per day - not only use activated, but in 2 seperate ways... I'd call the holding the edges a free action and the polymorphing a standard action, but you may think otherwise.
I dislike use activated items for probably the same reasons you do... they aren't clearly defined (apart from the drinking a potion stuff), and seem able to cause all sorts of problems. But thats ok, because its up to the GM to determine whats allowed to be made *shrug*
3.5 SRD said:
Dunno how much more clear it can get that 'as a free action', and there's nothing about it in the errata... which faq? I didn't see a link to it in the SRD stickied post, so I have no clue how official it is.
There's plenty of examples of this sort of item... bag of tricks is the same way, except its trigger (throwing a ball from the bag) is most definately a standard action. Useable 10/week.
Or a cloak of the bat - 7 minutes per day - not only use activated, but in 2 seperate ways... I'd call the holding the edges a free action and the polymorphing a standard action, but you may think otherwise.
I dislike use activated items for probably the same reasons you do... they aren't clearly defined (apart from the drinking a potion stuff), and seem able to cause all sorts of problems. But thats ok, because its up to the GM to determine whats allowed to be made *shrug*
dcollins
Explorer
I take it back about the boots of speed, I was in error, in 3.0 they were a standard action to activate. I didn't think to check 3.5 to see they had added the part about "as a free action, the wearer can click her boot heels together..."
In general I don't have a a problem with use-activated items, I feel that they're quite well defined, up until the point that people inventing their own items decide to break that definition. In addition, I now have to say that the 3.5 change to boots of speed is yet another crack in the definition made by 3.5 designers who didn't understand the intent of the use-activation.
In general I don't have a a problem with use-activated items, I feel that they're quite well defined, up until the point that people inventing their own items decide to break that definition. In addition, I now have to say that the 3.5 change to boots of speed is yet another crack in the definition made by 3.5 designers who didn't understand the intent of the use-activation.
jgsugden
Legend
As an FYI, the pricing materials are guidelines, not firm rules. If followed to a tee, they often lead to bad pricing. When I look at the suggested price for this item, I tend to think that 1,000,000 is too low.
The *only* way to do this properly is to compare the new item to items in the DMG/ELH that already have a price. If your new item is clearly better than something in the ELH, the price should be above the ELH item price. If the ELH item is clearly better than your item, keep your new item's price beneath th ELH item's price.
I don't have my ELH on hand and I am not incredibly familiar with everything in it, so I will not even try to guess a fiar price, but my gut tells me that 1,000,000 is far too low.
And, btw, you might want to make that an extended divine favor if you're really trying to max out the item. It may double the cost of that ability, but 10 rds is often too short for large battles.
The *only* way to do this properly is to compare the new item to items in the DMG/ELH that already have a price. If your new item is clearly better than something in the ELH, the price should be above the ELH item price. If the ELH item is clearly better than your item, keep your new item's price beneath th ELH item's price.
I don't have my ELH on hand and I am not incredibly familiar with everything in it, so I will not even try to guess a fiar price, but my gut tells me that 1,000,000 is far too low.
And, btw, you might want to make that an extended divine favor if you're really trying to max out the item. It may double the cost of that ability, but 10 rds is often too short for large battles.
der_kluge
Adventurer
Using the Spell Slot System from Artificer's Handbook:
Mass Heal 3 times per day (caster level 25) as a free action
Restoration 3 times per day (caster level 7) as a free action
Dispel Magic Greater 3 times per day (Caster level 20) as a free action
Divine Favor 9 times per day (caster level 18) as a free action
creation formula: (SL = spell level, CL = caster level, SS = number of spell slots required - derived from tables in the book)
10gp(SL + CL - 1) * SS^2
Mass Heal :
10gp(9 + 25 -1) * 10^2 = 330gp * 100 = 33,000gp
(requires ten 9th level spell slots)
Dispel Magic, Greater:
10gp(6 + 20 -1) * 11^2 = 250gp * 121 = 30,250gp
(requires eleven 6th level spell slots
Restoration:
10gp(4 + 7 -1) * 12^2 = 100gp * 144 = 14,400gp
(requires twelve 4th level spell slots)
Divine Favor
10gp(1 + 18 -1) * 19^2 = 180gp * 361 = 64,980gp
(requires nineteen 1st level spell slots)
Total:
33,000 + 30,250 + 14,400 + 64,980 = 142,630gp (creation cost)
Not terribly expensive. The DMG system's cost just get ridiculously high. I mean, for those of you who statted out 800,000 or 1,000,000 gold coins for this, do you realize that 100,000gp is the GP limit of a Metropolis? (3.5 DMG, pg. 137)
142,630gp is perfectly reasonable. But difficult when you consider that the item requires the creator to have TEN 9th level spell slots. I don't know how many 9th level spell slots a 25th level cleric has, but I'd be surprised if he could pull ten of them out of his butt. That's pretty significant. I'd allow this item IMC, but only if the creator actually had 10 9th level slots, or they reduced the number of mass heals to two per day, or changed it to spell completion, or something.
Mass Heal 3 times per day (caster level 25) as a free action
Restoration 3 times per day (caster level 7) as a free action
Dispel Magic Greater 3 times per day (Caster level 20) as a free action
Divine Favor 9 times per day (caster level 18) as a free action
creation formula: (SL = spell level, CL = caster level, SS = number of spell slots required - derived from tables in the book)
10gp(SL + CL - 1) * SS^2
Mass Heal :
10gp(9 + 25 -1) * 10^2 = 330gp * 100 = 33,000gp
(requires ten 9th level spell slots)
Dispel Magic, Greater:
10gp(6 + 20 -1) * 11^2 = 250gp * 121 = 30,250gp
(requires eleven 6th level spell slots
Restoration:
10gp(4 + 7 -1) * 12^2 = 100gp * 144 = 14,400gp
(requires twelve 4th level spell slots)
Divine Favor
10gp(1 + 18 -1) * 19^2 = 180gp * 361 = 64,980gp
(requires nineteen 1st level spell slots)
Total:
33,000 + 30,250 + 14,400 + 64,980 = 142,630gp (creation cost)
Not terribly expensive. The DMG system's cost just get ridiculously high. I mean, for those of you who statted out 800,000 or 1,000,000 gold coins for this, do you realize that 100,000gp is the GP limit of a Metropolis? (3.5 DMG, pg. 137)
142,630gp is perfectly reasonable. But difficult when you consider that the item requires the creator to have TEN 9th level spell slots. I don't know how many 9th level spell slots a 25th level cleric has, but I'd be surprised if he could pull ten of them out of his butt. That's pretty significant. I'd allow this item IMC, but only if the creator actually had 10 9th level slots, or they reduced the number of mass heals to two per day, or changed it to spell completion, or something.
der_kluge
Adventurer
To make Divine Favor constant is problematic. I don't allow "Personal" spells to be placed permanently in items due to balance issues. I would not allow it.
If I *did* allow it, the cost would be thus (using the Artificer's Handbook rules)
10gp(1 + 18 -1) * 23^2 = 180gp * 529 = 95,220gp (Creation cost)
And would require twenty-three 1st level spell slots.
If I *did* allow it, the cost would be thus (using the Artificer's Handbook rules)
10gp(1 + 18 -1) * 23^2 = 180gp * 529 = 95,220gp (Creation cost)
And would require twenty-three 1st level spell slots.
BSF
Explorer
I would like to point out that the Artificer's Handbook system is a great system. However, the one big consideration for using it is that money *is not* the limiting factor. Spell slots are! Instead of dictating economy, I like to think of the Artificer's Handbook dictating spellcaster capability.
