New Non-WoTC Games?

[JohnRTroy]

One could argue that "veteran" d20 companies like Mongoose, Green Ronin, Troll Lord, etc ... have filled the vacuum that FASA, WEG, GDW, etc ... left behind.

Except the big problem I see now is that one particular game dominates the market a lot more than in the past. This is less "creative" because all you have now is variants of the same thing. I think the hobby was actually healthier when game designers created different stuff rather than altering the 3e ruleset. That's what I meant by "bio-diversity". If you let one species dominate, the ecosystem gets vulnerable to an extinction event--and a lot of these publishers took a hit when 4e was announced.

Now you're seeing a few of these guys again create their own games--they are likely not all going to use the 3e ruleset base anymore. And my hope is that will bring back the diversity we used to have.

 

[Ariosto]

White Wolf seems to be the only other big publisher.

I think the only time that was not so was when there was no other big publisher, really -- just TSR. YMMV as to defining "really big", and I don't have global sales data or anything like that, but D&D seems to me always to have been in a league of its own.

 

[Psion]

WotC's expressed intent (as I understand it) was to have "d20 System" monopolize the market, so that everyone and his dog would buy a D&D Players Handbook to play the "new" games that other publishers put out.

Sorta, not quite. I believe Ryan's words were more to the effect of "there would be fewer, higher quality systems."

Which is sort of what happened, just not to the extent that was meaningful to WotC. There was probably like a 10-20% reduction in systems, vs. a 50-70% that would have been consistent with that vision.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I can't speak for all the game companies but in SJG case it wasLt d20 that was the problem but how well Munckin does. GURPS will always lose to that game due to limited resources.

 

[thalmin]

For new games or new edtions besides D&D 4E, we have Pathfinder, Savage Worlds, Shadowrun 4E, Runequest 4 and variants, Traveller and variants, Conan, Cortex system (Battlestar Gallactica and Serenity), White Wolf World of Darkness, Exalted, Hero 6E, Paranoia, C&C, Ars Magica 5E, Gurps 4E, Mutants & Masterminds, Cthulhu Tech, Eclipse Phase, Dark Heresy, Warhammer Fantasy, Hackmaster, Aces & Eights, Deadlands, and Gumshoe.

Still around with new products are Rifts, Robotech, Call of Cthulhu, Cyberpunk, Mechwarrior, and L5R.

I'm sure there are many more I can't htink of right now, but all of these are either games with a lot of support, a long history, or from a major company. I have not even mentioned the many indie press products.

 

[Achan hiArusa]

I'd say the difference between now and 20 years is not the number of new games coming out (there are plenty), it's that few of them actually make it into stores anymore. There are tons of small press games that release PDF/POD and sell mostly direct. The RPG sections of many game stores are vanishingly small these days.

Anthony Gallela of Bucephalus Games had written an article (the link is unfortunately dead) that stated that to make a dead tree print run and market a new game you needed about $50,000. I've had a friend put a game on dtrpg.com/rpgnow.com for free.

 

[MichaelSomething]

I'd say the difference between now and 20 years is not the number of new games coming out (there are plenty), it's that few of them actually make it into stores anymore. There are tons of small press games that release PDF/POD and sell mostly direct. The RPG sections of many game stores are vanishingly small these days.

Since you're reading this thread...

Please put out an offical House sheet for the Song of Ice and Fire RPG already! Seriously, you need to do that sooner or later.

 

[Glyfair]

For new games or new edtions besides D&D 4E, we have Pathfinder, Savage Worlds, Shadowrun 4E, Runequest 4 and variants, Traveller and variants, Conan, Cortex system (Battlestar Gallactica and Serenity), White Wolf World of Darkness, Exalted, Hero 6E, Paranoia, C&C, Ars Magica 5E, Gurps 4E, Mutants & Masterminds, Cthulhu Tech, Eclipse Phase, Dark Heresy, Warhammer Fantasy, Hackmaster, Aces & Eights, Deadlands, and Gumshoe.

Of course, if you cut out "new editions" (which for many games mean little in the way of change), this list becomes small. Personally, I think very few d20 games count as "new" since most are just D&D 3.5 with some slight variation.

Then again, I imagine today we probably have large numbers of games that are downloadable and have only a few groups playing them at all. Probably quality is on average poor on those games, but I am sure some of them might get a boost with some good coverage. Unfortunately, good coverage is hard to find these days for various reasons (declineof the RPG magazines, decline of the local hobby game store, etc.)

 

[Cam Banks]

New games are coming out all the time. We released Supernatural this year, a year that also saw a dozen or more brand new RPGs with thriving fanbases, as well as new editions of older games.

As Chris Pramas says, it may be that the perception in the retail market is that games and game supplements from companies other than WotC, Mongoose, White Wolf, Green Ronin, Palladium, etc aren't going to sell, but I'm also pretty sure we're seeing online sales explode in the RPG market.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I remember in the late 90's seeing in Barns and Noble and Boarders GURPS, and Rifts books, with the occasional Call of cathulu. I also not only remember but bought lots of West end games stuff. (star wars D6, DCU, I know there was a 3rd one). Most of all though I remember whitewolf having books flying off the shelf.

By 3.5 all I remember seeing in books stores were D20 and WW, and even then 9 out of 10 D20 books were D&D. (I do also reember this is about the time I found my FLGS)

by the last year of 3.5, right before the gencon anouncment of 4e even my FLGS was cutting back on new things.

Today I see in book stores only 4e and WW (I have so far seen only 1 store carry pathfinder even), and even my FLGS is mostly WW, 4e, and Pathfinder.

In 95-96 I would have said TSR had a large chunk of the Market, with WW a distant second, with the other guys fighting for the scraps...today I often forget there ARE people fighting for the scraps.


I can't belive there is not a Super hero game out there better then M&M (a d20), I bearly ever see new Call of Cathulu, Rifts books come out at best once a quater (closer to once a year), GURPS has stoped printing books I belive...