New player and even newer DM struggling with another player...

[Mesh Hong]

I don't think this has been suggested yet, but how about you turn the tables on him. I'm not advocating letting him continue to pilfer everything in sight, but how about the next time he's assaulting a Lord from the shadows (perceived or real shadows), the Lord has a lvl 30 epic rogue on his payroll and that epic rogue pilfers everything the thieveing player owns.

Your epic lvl rogue makes a stealth roll 50 and a thievery check 50...the PC discovers that he has not only lost all of his gold, potions and supplies (including food and adventuring gear), but his +2 dagger and and +2 short bow are completely gone and have been replaced with a stick hastily fastened together to resemble a dagger and a curved stick with a string tied to it used to resemble a short bow.

You know, something along those lines where he starts to feel the sting of what he's doing being done back to him. Tell him that he can have his stuff back after he successful completes counseling at the local thieves guild...ok, that last part is just a little joke, but trying to do to him what he does to others may help him see how annoying it is.

GL in resolving this issue at your table.

I see the intent of what you are trying here and while it might be satisfying for the DM I don't think it is the best course of action.

What you are suggesting is actually reinforcing the players behaviour by using the same tactics that he is, only slightly worse because you are abusing the system you are responsible for arbitrating to do it.

A character is far more justified in stealing anything he wants in a world that steals anything it wants from him. Also if you steal from the PC he has a legitimate reason to rally the rest of the group behind him as the aggreived party seeking "justice" or "revenge".

In all fairness this approach stands a good chance of making teh situation worse (in and out of game) not better.

 

[surfarcher]

I was this character many times over many years. We had a lot of fun with it... Sometimes.

Why did I stop?

Well when enough became enough it just wasn't viable.

Just because I had a skill didn't mean it would automatically work. A skill is there for when it is feasible for it to work.

Kill someone and they can't steal. Period (consider this "hard DC x 50"). There are multiple ways this can be implemented, in game mechanics and some of it's been touched above.

In the end a disruptive PC will have to be dealt with.

In game-world terms it's simple. They will piss off the wrong powerful person and there will be repercussions. That person will send magical, martial and and many other resources types after them. Increasingly powerful resources.

I'd personally be inclined to drive the campaign using this.

Reminds me of a new player I had not long ago. In this particular game the new Rogue decided to use his thievery skills on the cleric. I had a DM PC fighter in that game (they were short numbers) and turnabout is fair play. The rouge doesnt like intimidate being used on him BTW Interestingly the cleric had her nose out of joint at this! This is when I reminded the group that evil PC behaviour has no place in my campaign...

Nipped in the bud. Now you need to figure out the best way to nip it in the bud and that will be a custom thing that needs to fit you, your players and that group dynamic.

Unless you have access to an imparital and very experienced DM you did the right thing by looking for thoughts and advice. But before you implement any plan I strongly suggest you think it through and make sure it's a good fit.

Best of luck and if I can help in any way please do let me know.

 

[mkill]

Reminds me of a new player I had not long ago. In this particular game the new Rogue decided to use his thievery skills on the cleric.

Yeah, steal from the guy who's supposed to stop you from bleeding to death next fight. That's not evil, that's stupid. (*)

If I had a flake like that at the table, I wouldn't even react, just point out the above to him. His choice to get the point and stop, or leave the house and never come back.



(*) Really, what happened to evil will always triumph because good is dumb? Kids these days don't even know the basics anymore.

 

[surfarcher]

hahaha! Maybe I should have but I know the player (and her character) aren't the type to withhold healing when it'll impact the party.

In my groups where that's the case I wouldn't have intervened... And wouldn't have needed to.

 

[Solvarn]

Remove Emotion

Take a deep breath. Try to remove your emotion from the equation.

Ask yourself, "How would this area of your campaign world react if there was an active force of evil stealing and killing?"

Shops might shut down, traders might move. Perhaps a thieve's or assassin's guild is able to take down the local leader due to the instability of the local government situation. Remove their homebase. Make it difficult to get an extended rest in any settled area.

Have a church elder explain that we live in a sea of black, and this city was once a point of light. But it's star is dimming...

Introduce an NPC to the party. Over the course of several adventures, make him of use to the PC's. After a few adventures, have him explain that he has to bury his family because they were mugged and killed. The city can't get a rein on the law. Some powerful force of evil has come to town and the local constabulary has been powerless to stop it. This has encouraged lawlessness to run rampant.

Eventually, one of the churches may react and hire a group of adventurers to deal with the issue, or send an avenger, or a team of avengers. Don't make it punishing personally, you should escalate the threat based on the resources of your church. Start smaller and ramp up.

Don't make it personal, show that actions have consequences. This is a great opportunity to use the good monsters out of the books that you might not get to use otherwise. How often does a DM get to throw a paladin against the party?

You are going to tell a story still, it just might not be the story you were expected to tell. Just remember not to allow yourself the indulgence of making this a punishment. If you can fight the urge it will give you confidence in dealing with the young child's complaints, or his brother. Remind them if they don't like the way the story is headed, they always have the power to change it.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Things NOT to do:
1. Escalate. Don't beat him down using the rules, that just encourages a munchkin to make an even more indestructible and powerful character next time.

2. Increase the amount of screen time he gets because of his antics. That's exactly what he wants and what the other players don't want.

You are the DM. You control the world that the PCs inhabit. Use that. The success and failure of bluff is entirely your dominion, and no munchkining can deny that (for starters). The contents of a noble's pockets is entirely your dominion (Would the lord mayor really bother carrying cash? Well, unless he's intending to give it to the adventurers, at which point a theft will be quickly noticed...).

 

[Samir]

Be sure to keep us posted, I'm interested in how this turns out.

 

[Smoke Jaguar]

To make things more fun... older brother sent me a text stating he is going to start playing an evil avenger. He is pretty open to suggestions. I emailed him with my concerns and I am going to talk to the group tomorrow. I will let everybody know how it goes.

 

[twilsemail]

To make things more fun... older brother sent me a text stating he is going to start playing an evil avenger. He is pretty open to suggestions. I emailed him with my concerns and I am going to talk to the group tomorrow. I will let everybody know how it goes.

You could, of course, say "no." I mean you're having enough trouble with 1 evil PC...

Alternately, get someone to run an evil game for the group. Have the PCs always on the run. They're unable to buy supplies because they can't visit a town. In order to get that spiffy magic fullblade the Avenger wants they'll have to toady for an evil wizard for a bit. If they want evil, give them evil...

That just doesn't seem to be what you're going for with this game. *le sigh* roll-players bother me on a fundamental level sometimes.

 

[Solvarn]

To make things more fun... older brother sent me a text stating he is going to start playing an evil avenger. He is pretty open to suggestions. I emailed him with my concerns and I am going to talk to the group tomorrow. I will let everybody know how it goes.

First of all, let's take a good look at our average PC's. They are basically violent killers that loot graves.

The issue is with chaotic evil PC's, or chaotic stupid as they end up being.

Just like a good PC's won't last long in an evil society performing openly good deeds, an evil PC won't last long in a good society performing evil deeds. This needs to be explained to these people.

Evil PC's need to be secretive about it, because:

#1 - Good and neutral PC's won't try to kill you in your sleep and steal your stuff. They make better teammates, and as a plus, might sacrifice themselves to save you. Suckers.

#2 - Good and neutral NPC's are more likely to pay you after a job well done. Not that successful evil NPC's don't pay well either, at least the successful, intelligent ones. The stupid ones get rickrolled by low level good PC's because no one is guarding their lair.

Basically, the PC's need to understand that if they are behaving stupidly there are consequences for it.

Now, if these guys are going to continue to be idiots, or you don't feel like DMing this type of game, you will need to ask them to stop coming, or you will need to stop DMing for them.