New player and even newer DM struggling with another player...

I forgot to mention this, but the local thieve's guild probably won't put up with this for long. He can be sneaky all day, you can't outsneak a divination paid for with thieve's guild money. Crap should be raining down from all sides of your campaign world on this moron; hired assassins, righteous paladins, angry thieves, etc. In the heat of battle it's up to the PC's whether they stick up for this kid, i.e. heal him. If they heal or assist him they could be charged as an accessory if the law is involved.

Maybe while they are sitting in prison, they hatch some kind of escape plot, or the next adventure hook starts there.
 

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If you really want to mess with him, have the authorities think his brother (his brother's character actually) is responsible for the havoc he is causing. Then two things might happen...

1) The 12 year old might grow a concious and not want to see his brother (his brother's character) punished for HIS crimes.

2) His brother's character may get upset with him and try to handle it in-game. "I'm being accused of a crime you committed! You caused this, now you fix it!"
 

I agree with everything that has been said. I am kind of looking forward to this. Honestly, I don't think I will force them to switch but I am going to make things difficult on them and borderline pick on them. I was going to have the party be visited by a good deity and give them gifts but not to them since a good deity wouldn't support that kind of beahvior.

They are both playing as Bladeling, which I am not exactly thrilled about either, so it would be easy and makes sense if the two were confused for each other.
 

Is it wrong that we are treating this child's hobby and connection to the 'sensible world of adults' as a reality show? Let each person have fun their own way, if the child wants to steal then let him but do not let him hog the stage, he will grow out of it eventually (or just get worse but lets not think about that).
 

I agree with everything that has been said. I am kind of looking forward to this. Honestly, I don't think I will force them to switch but I am going to make things difficult on them and borderline pick on them. I was going to have the party be visited by a good deity and give them gifts but not to them since a good deity wouldn't support that kind of beahvior.

I would advise caution with this approach. Depending upon the "gifts" bestowed the party could become imbalanced as a result. Now, if they are getting extra treasure that the non-stealing PC's aren't getting, than this is a great solution to balancing things out, and it shows that they aren't able to really get ahead. You might have a better effect with a servant of a deity or a local cleric or paladin; typically you don't meet a deity unless you're epic. Again, that can vary just some food for thought.

My advice is to take the high road and try really hard not to make it personal. Negativity like that can hurt the group overall for sure.

They are both playing as Bladeling, which I am not exactly thrilled about either, so it would be easy and makes sense if the two were confused for each other.

The plus side to them being bladelings is that bladelings as a race suck (they don't have the kind of racial feat support other races do).
 

I wasn't having them meet a deity just a prophet leader type person. I am not going to make it person. I just want to help them see that being good has its rewards.
 

I don't know. Seems like you might be heading towards a rather antagonistic DM vs Players type situation. And I doubt whether 'picking on them' is going to help the creation of good feeling and fun.

If I was you, i'd want to know what your other players thought about the game/situation. And I'd want everyone to know how I felt about things. Maybe you don't have that level of confidence with these people. They are perhaps strangers as opposed to friends you know that you game with as well?

I had a problem with a new player who was questioning my decisions and rulings even the actions the monsters were taking, interrupting the game constantly. Arguments began to creep in amongst players as well. So we all had a talk about what we wanted from the game.

Her argment was that she was trying to understand the game and apart from that she was a 'conflictive' person by nature. My counter argument was that I had all the time in the world for her to question any of my decisions after the game and between sessions and I'd happily talk it out with her. But not at the table for the benefit of game flow. I explained that i didn't enjoy it and that it was taking away from my enjoyment of the game. It just wasn't fun for me.

She struggled at first with it, but she made an real effort and soon became one of the most engaged players at the table and away from it.

I think the unspoken social contract is really important for all the players to buy into. Part of that contract consists of the group deciding as a group the direction, the norms and the kind of game they all want to be playing and working together to achieve that goal. If your not feeling everyone has signed the unspoken contract... I think you need to speak about it.

If that doesn't work... I would avoid the 'picking on' part; I think a bit of hardball is fair game, especially if the PCs are being openly stupid. Let the consequences rain down, but on all of them. Guilty by association. No pressure is greater than internal peer pressure. And like Solvarn says, hit them from all sides. Goodies, badies, greedies.

But hopefully it won't come to that.

I kind of have the feeling that your real problem is not the 12 year old kid. It's his brother. The fact that he hasn't pulled his little brother's head in. The fact you describe him as defensive when you broach the subject. The fact that he was DM before you and declared that it was fine to play evil. The fact that he is calling you up to tell you he is going to play an evil avenger himself... It's like he thinks it's his game and you're just providing a role in order to allow him to play.

So you need to find out what the other players think, find out where their loyalties lie, and then lay out the ground rules you want to be implemented into the game. You could even start preparing a new campaign... say... Dark Sun? :) When you're ready, scrap the old game, have everyone roll new characters and set the new ground rules for the campaign. Include cooperative play between party members as one of them. Also, in Athas, as far as I gather, there is little room for alignment; there is only smart or dead.
 

To make things more fun... older brother sent me a text stating he is going to start playing an evil avenger. He is pretty open to suggestions. I emailed him with my concerns and I am going to talk to the group tomorrow. I will let everybody know how it goes.

Running an evil game is one thing. Introducing evil PCs into a non-evil party is quite another. If everyone is RPing properly the latter will split the group permanently and the good PCs would likely become the sworn enemies of the evil ones.

On top of that you have little brother who doesn't understand that evil isn't the same as attacking the other PCs. If big brother has the same misconception you'll have real problems.

I suggest phoning big brother and talking it all through, assuming you can both discuss it maturely. And don't forget to mention that you are new to DMing and probably not up to the challenges of a party containing evil and/or overly disruptive PCs yet.
 

My two cents

Take your idea of giving the players some sort of weapon or artifact: give the evil character a powerful artifact that only works while the character is doing good works. Alternatively, it could be an evil artifact that feeds on the character's soul, or something, slowly killing him. When the character realizes it, he must go to the only NPC that can help him--an NPC that he has previously harmed in some way.
 

Is it wrong that we are treating this child's hobby and connection to the 'sensible world of adults' as a reality show?

I'm not sure what this means. If you're asking if it's wrong that we are discussing an issue that Smoke Jaguar is having with his game, then the answer is "Of course not!"

Let each person have fun their own way, if the child wants to steal then let him but do not let him hog the stage, he will grow out of it eventually (or just get worse but lets not think about that).

You say this like there is no chance that the child's actions are disrupting the fun of others, and the very fact that this thread exists proves otherwise.
 

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