New/Revised Prestige Classes

[Upper_Krust]

Hey everyone!

Thanks for the ideas.

I agree with both the chronmancer class and the god slayer class would be good.

I have a Chronomancer class planned. I like the idea of a God-slayer class too.

I belive that at one point you were planning prestige classes for some of the god in ascension but decided aganst it for time and space issues, now that gods and monsters is a seperate book that might hold a place to include them?

The Prestige Classes (and Organisations) will be in the Chronicle book.

A prestige class based around each of the First ones would be good.

Dimensional classes...that fits in with Chronomancer I suppose.

How about for an eternal level of prestige class one based around world building and creating life? Or one that tries to emulate the supreme being?

I'll give it some thought.

 

[paradox42]

Well, I haven't seen a very good Chronomancer class. They are certainly out there, but most seem either lacking in style/effectiveness or are more broken than words can describe.

The real problem with making a Chronomancer (or for that matter, anything related to time) is that different DMs classify time-based powers differently, and think of time differently. For example, some might allow PCs to go into the past and create a paradox which destroys reality (the quest could presumably be set up around such a thing, a la Back to the Future). Others would disallow time travel to the past for exactly the same reason; to them, paradox can't happen and the only way for the universe to stop it is to disallow travel into the past (scientists who advocate this idea for real-world physics call this the "Chronology Protection Conjecture.")

To those in the second category, any power of a Chronomancer which allows any sort of meddling with the past is immediately "broken." To the first group, a Chronomancer class that doesn't have such a power is lacking something, and probably worthless.

I'm in a third category of time-travel theorists myself, usually called the "parallel worlds theory-" which states that at any given point in time, all possible outcomes actually do occur, but essentially separated into their own timelines which never influence each other again (except perhaps through weird sorts of quantum interference depending on precisely how you interpret quantum mechanics). With this theory, the whole notion of paradox becomes irrelevant, because anything you do in the past to change the future just creates a new timeline for you to follow and has absolutely no effect on the one you came from (which, since you thought of the action as a "change," obviously didn't include it in the timeline you originated in).

With this theory, Chronomancers likely not only have the power to travel to the past and change things, but might actually have powers to travel between parallel universes- cross the second time dimension, if you will. People in the first two categories would probably not only consider this broken, they'd probably fail to even understand why a "time mage" even has some of the powers ascribed to it by the third-category theorist.

 

[dante58701]

I would have to ascribe to the third theory as well. It's far more realistic. There does exist a chronomancy series that involves that very theory. You can find it online somewhere. Im gonna go look for the links.

Here's my favorite one.

http://dragen-nibe.dk/media/rpg/netbook_time_v1.pdf

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

Any thoughts regarding the Revised Fighter Class I posted yesterday on the website?

http://www.immortalshandbook.com/sermon6a.htm

Good? Bad? Ugly?

 

[mercucio]

Honestly it seems worse than the regular fighter. It is a one-trick (or weapon category) pony. The fighter needs 4 skill points/level and perhaps exclusive (or better access) to meta-martial maneuvers to make it more distinct & interesting.

 

[Xzoltar]

Usally I love the stuff you make, but this time for the Fighter, I dont like it. Sure its fun it it harder and more often, but it lack diversity, every Fighter are the same now except maybe their starting weapon. I will try to playtest it in my next games for a couple of thugs that I will throw at my party, so we'll see. I will let them use Meta-martial maneuver like in Immortal Handbook, so that they dont just do the same thing again and again...

Less option is not fun at all and it seem to go against what you usally design...

 

[WarDragon]

No! Bad designer, bad! Customization is the only reason people ever took Fighter levels, and, speaking from a munchkin PoV, the Weapon Focus chain sucks out loud. A far cry from buffing the class, you've ensured nobody will ever take it. By the way, Eclectic Strike? Worthless. Yeah, your feats will apply, but the random crap you pick up is still nonmagical, and therefore, just that: crap.

The "random" feats aren't a drawback, they're the class's lifeblood. Give the new stuff too, but keep the feat every level.

And what the hell do you have against iterative attacks?! They're the only advantage non-casters have!

Seriously, Krusty, it seems like you're catering to the mentally challenged gamer, here. Anyone who can't pick a few more feats, or remember to -5 with every attack after the first is going to be lost in high to Epic level anyway, so don't worry about them, and just make the class worth playing.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Well, I can't say I didn't like the class; I would consider playing one over a regular fighter, just to give it a whirl. Though I really found this class lacking in coolness. (a bit more so than with the PH fighter)

I do think the game itself could use a bit more simplicity; feat packages work pretty well to do that at high levels. But some classes are ONLY playable if they have complex combinations of options available. Example: Wizard - If I said All Wizard have is an attack spell that does 4 damage/level, and a defensive spell that adds +1 deflection bonus/2 levels, wizard would look really dry too. Who would play them? Not me. Now barbarian is one of those classes that is really simple and class design and play strategy: Step 1 - Get angry. Step 2 - Kill. Step 3 - If survivors remain, return to Step 2.

That said, I wouldn't put your fighter version as better or worse than a PH fighter and would allow a player to use either one, but I myself would lean to the basic fighter because of the options available. Don't need a weapon specialist? No problem! I'll make a Trip/Disarm/Expertise Fiend.

 

[Pssthpok]

I think the fighter class is fine the way it is, though I think some of the abilities you put in your version would make great high-level feats.
I also think that losing iterative attacks could be very problematic, even if it does simplify things. I'd take a 20/15/10/5 over a 5/5/5/5 any day of the week, as the former makes sense and the latter is nonsense, underpowered, and sorta silly. If the metamartial move was reworded to allow for this, then I'd support removing 'staple' iteratives, such as:

Blitz Attack: You may make more than one attack per round. Each additional attack suffers a cumulative -5 attack penalty. You may make as many attacks as you'd like, provided no attack is made with an attack penalty equal to or greater than your Base Attack.
eg. So, if you have a Base Attack of +17, you could make one standard attack, one at +12 (-5), one at +7 (-10), and one at +2 (-15), but no more.

Which I understand is basically the same thing as the RAW, but it's better for the habit and survival of the players; removal of the EAB rules in conjunction with the above metamartial move abolishes the Wizard 20/Fighter 20 vs. Fighter 20/Wizard 20 dilemma... which is a good thing. Removing the ability to make more than one high-mod attack per round will only serve to drag out combat, since fighters will be making fewer attacks per round, even if they auto-confirm and use your Multiplier feats.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Thanks for all the feedback on this guys!

Hey mercucio mate!

Honestly it seems worse than the regular fighter. It is a one-trick (or weapon category) pony. The fighter needs 4 skill points/level and perhaps exclusive (or better access) to meta-martial maneuvers to make it more distinct & interesting.

Well obviously I was building it with the Metamartial Maneouvres in mind.

As for Skills, you are getting one skill point to every skill each level. But I see now that the original skill point method is possibly a better fit for working out cross class skills.