new spellcasting system, anyone?

[Afrodyte]

I was inspired by the Sovereign Stone RPG to tweak the spellcasting system so that you could use flavor to differentiate sorcerers from wizards, but I think here is as good a place as any to put it, if only to share my ideas of how arcane casters can be done. I'll follow up with how I'm planning to do wizards so you can see the difference. I apologize for the length. I know it's a great deal to read and digest.

SORCERER
The flavor text paragraphs that detail what the sorcerer remain the same. So no changes for religion, races, alignment, etc.

It's the game rule information that gets the overhaul.

GAME RULE INFORMATION

Abilities Charisma determines the spellcasting bonus for a sorcerer's spells. Sorcerers add their Charisma modifier to their Spellcasting bonus roll.

Alignment: Any.

Hit Die: d6

Class Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (any), Profession.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Simple weapons. No armor or shields.

Spells:
Spells Known. Sorcerers may cast spells from the one school (chosen during creation) as arcane spells, even those classified as divine spells. As long as it is a spell of the school the sorcerer is familiar with, she can cast it. The maximum level of the spells known is equal to half the sorcerer's caster level, rounding down (minimum level is 1). For example, a sorcerer who is a bit of a pyromaniac would cast spells from the Evocation school, and this would include (for the most part) cleric spells from the Fire domain.

Casting spells. To cast a spell, a sorcerer makes a spellcasting check as though it were a skill check. The DC for casting a spell starts at 5 for 0th level spells and increases by 5 for each level (this means DC 50 for 9th level spells). Sorcerers get a spellcasting bonus equal to their level + their Charisma modifier. Unlike wizards, sorcerers require no components for their spells, but they gain a +5 competence bonus for using them. Some sorcerers choose to channel their mystical energy through a focus such as a talisman, amulet, staff, wand, or other tool (consider meditation, drugs, etc). For using a focus (as opposed to simply having it) to cast a spell, the sorcerer gains a +5 bonus to the spellcasting roll when casting a spell from the school associated with the focus. Sorcerers may also spend extra time focusing their power to gain bonuses to their casting. A sorcerer may spend time before casting a spell concentrating to gain a bonus to the spellcasting check. For each round spent concentrating, add +1 to the result. If, however, the sorcerer is the gambling type, he may, before casting a spell, roll a Concentration check vs. DC 10 + the spell's level. If successful, add the degree of success to the spellcasting roll. In addition, a sorcerer may expend her personal reserves to add more power to a spell. For every 5 HP the sorcerer sacrifices to this end, she may add +1 to the spellcrafting result. Sorcerers cannot take 10 or 20 for spellcasting checks because they operate from raw mystical power, not from rituals and learning.

Innate spells. When a sorcerer becomes extremely familiar with casting a certain spell, he gains the ability to cast it at will without needing to roll. These are called innate spells. For a number of spells equal to half your caster level (round down), you may cast a spell automatically as a move-equivalent action, even in times of great stress or amidst distraction. If the innate spell you chose is augmented by the Quicken Spell feat, you may cast this spell as a partial action.

Not every spell can be an innate spell. First, the spell must be a known spell that has been cast frequently, which establishes the familiarity that makes innate casting possible. At least five times within a given level is a good yardstick. Second, the level of the innate spells a sorcerer may know is limited by how much magical energy she can process. If the sorcerer can successfully cast a spell using only her spellcasting bonus and charisma modifier by taking 10, she has enough mystical power to have it as an innate spell. For instance, if a sorcerer wished to cast flaming sphere as an innate spell, she would need a spellcasting bonus (including Charisma modifier) of at least +15 to do so. Once an innate spell is chosen, it cannot be changed.

Talents. Talents represent the sorcerer's growing awareness of his abilities. Through his experiences, sorcerers not only discover what they are capable of, but also increase the powers they already have. Sorcerers gain a talent at 1st, 5th, 7th, 10th, 11th, 13th, 14th, 17th, and 19th levels. There are five talents available to sorcerers.

Familiar. As the PHB, but can have normal medium-sized animals as familiars too. A dog, will give a +2 bonus to Listen and Scent tests (works like Spot, but with smell).

Bonus spell. Self-explanatory. Of course, this must be from the school(s) that your character knows.

Innate spell. You know another spell as an innate spell. You must still meet the prerequisites for having this spell as an innate spell.

Bonus school. You can cast spells from more than one school. You may take this talent up to 3 times.

Bonus metamagic feat. Self-explanatory. A new feat I came up with is Magic Focus. You use an object (perhaps a crystal, an item of clothing, or drugs), situation (nudity, lunar phases, planetary alignments, time of day), or state of mind (pain, joy, anger) which focuses your mind and energy, facilitating spellcasting. Each time you take this feat, it applies to a different school. You gain a +5 spellcasting bonus when you cast spells using (not simply possessing) a focus.

Note: Multiclassed spellcasters cast spells as they learned them. So, if a sorcerer multiclassed into Wizard (say, Sor 4/Wiz 1), she would cast her sorcerer spells as a 4th level caster and her wizard spells as a 1st level wizard.

Note: These sorcerers do not get item creation feats. You need to be a wizard to do that.

 

[Nail]

SORCERER
....(snip).....
Casting spells. To cast a spell, a sorcerer makes a spellcasting check as though it were a skill check. The DC for casting a spell starts at 5 for 0th level spells and increases by 5 for each level (this means DC 50 for 9th level spells). Sorcerers get a spellcasting bonus equal to their level + their Charisma modifier. Unlike wizards, sorcerers require no components for their spells, but they gain a +5 competence bonus for using them. Some sorcerers choose to channel their mystical energy through a focus such as a talisman, amulet, staff, wand, or other tool (consider meditation, drugs, etc). For each focus used (as opposed to simply having them)to cast a spell, the sorcerer gains a +5 bonus to the spellcasting roll. Sorcerers may also spend extra time concentrating their power to gain bonuses to their casting. Before casting a spell, roll a Concentration check vs. DC 15 + the spell's level. If successful, add the degree of success to the spellcasting roll. In addition, a sorcerer may expend her personal reserves to add more power to a spell. For every 5 HP the sorcerer sacrifices to this end, she may add +1 to the spellcrafting result. Sorcerers cannot take 10 or 20 for spellcasting checks because they operate from raw mystical power, not from rituals and learning.
[/B]

A quick response before I'm off to bed:

Looks interesting! I'd be tempted to remove the concentration check, if only to speed up the spell casting process. Otherwise that's a lot of extra dice rolling, which will slow down combat.

Also, the player will have quite a few extra numbers to juggle as she prepares to cast the spell. For a few players I know, a bunch of extra numbers that can be changed each time the character casts a spell results in a big confusing mess, in the end resolved by me, the DM.

Finally, you've only got focus as a component. Do sorcerers gain nothing for using verbal, Somatic, or material components?

 

[Afrodyte]

Unlike wizards, sorcerers require no components for their spells, but they gain a +5 competence bonus for using them.

I think that answers your question.

The easiest way to keep the numbers stable is to use stable methods. For instance, Diana (Sor 6) is a born Diviner. Although her powers function naturally, she can use them more easily if she has her tarot cards. When she uses components for her spells (such as a glass eye for clairvoyance), her powers are more easily controlled. In the former case, she is using a focus, which gives her a +5 circumstance bonus for her spellcasting check. In the latter, she is using components for a spell that don't require them. This gives her an additional +5 bonus for the check, adding up to +10. Her level gives her a spellcasting bonus of +6. Altogether, when she casts clairvoyance with a glass eye and using her tarot cards, she gains a +16 bonus. If she has a Charisma bonus, she adds that too. It sounds complicated when describing in sentences, but if I put it in a chart, it's easier to understand.

As far as slowing down combat is concerned, there are ways to go about it (such as using different-colored d20s for different checks) that decrease the time spent rolling dice, things that can help everything, not just this spellcasting system. But, if you want to do away with the Concentration check, you could streamline it by just saying each turn (or action or round, whichever you favor) you spend concentrating gives you a +1 bonus.

 

[Afrodyte]

tweaked wizards

Wizards are much easier to tweak with this system because it was designed with them in mind. Once again, I'm taking ideas from Sovereign Stone, so please do not sue me. I don't have anything.

Wizards follow the same setup as the PHB as far as Hit Die, Skills, etc. Except instead of spell slots and the "memorize and forget" spell system, I use a spellcasting bonus that starts out equal to the wizard's level plus his Intelligence modifier. Intelligence implies knowledge and learning over raw talent (which is what sorcerers use), so it is still a vital attribute for wizards.

Wizards need components to cast spells, as they manipulate magical energy via formulas and rituals as opposed to their personal power. One is art, the other science. Some wizards may disagree, but they all will say that magic is an exacting discipline, one that they should approach with care and respect.

Wizards cast spells based on three levels of familiarity: intimate knowledge, quick reference, and full reference.

Wizards cast their intimate knowledge spells from memory alone. A useful trick if you get stuck somewhere without your books and scrolls. You may distribute your wizard levels amongst the sum of the levels of the spells you know as intimate knowledge. You keep these as intimate knowledge for one level, whereupon you may study other spells and gain them as intimate knowledge if you wish. For instance, a 7th level wizard has 7 levels of spells to play around with as intimate knowledge spells. She can have 7 1st level spells, three 2nd level spells and a 1st level spell, two 3rd level spells and a 1st level spell, two 2nd level spells and a 3rd level spell, etc. It just has to add up to her wizard levels. Now, I would caution players and DMs to exercise their Intelligence and Wisdom scores here. If a wizard is shipwrecked on a desert island (his books somewhere at the bottom of the ocean) and only has intimate knowledge with continual flame, flaming sphere, and animate rope, if he survives and manages to level up, he won't all of a sudden have chill touch amongst his intimate knowledge spells.

Quick reference spells are more like the spell slots familiar to the current D&D magic system. They work something like the intimate knowledge spells, except you have to spend one round doing a quick once-over for the spell before casting. Afterwards, you cast them as intimate knowledge spells for a number of hours equal to 1 + your Intelligence modifier.

Full reference spells require 1 round/level to study before and during casting. You can have any number of full reference spells. Initially, all new spells count as full reference spells.

Now, you may ask: How do you get from full reference to intimate knowledge spells? It's easy. When you learn a spell, it starts as a full reference spell. After a level of using it, you get used to it. Then it becomes quick reference. After a level or so of being a quick reference spell, it becomes an intimate knowledge spell. So, essentially, for a spell to go from full reference to intimate knowledge requires three levels of study and use.

Specialist wizards operate similar to how they do in the PHB, but instead of having the school specialization and forbidden schools, after designating a specialization, each spell has one of three designations: Advantaged, Neutral, and Disadvantaged. The school you choose to specialize in is Advantaged for you. When casting spells from that school, you gain a +5 competence bonus to your spellcasting checks for spells of that school. The schools you choose as your prohibited school become Disadvantaged for you, and you get a -5 penalty to your spellcasting checks for spells of that school. All others are Neutral spells, and they use the standard spellcasting bonus.

The DCs for the spells work just as they do for sorcerers (see the Casting Spells section in the sorcerer nerfs), and wizards can add bonuses to their spells just as sorcerers do, but they can choose to take 10 or 20 on their spellcasting. Like skills, this naturally increases the casting time of the spell, but it guarantees results. The maximum spell level a wizard can cast is equal to half his wizard level.

At 1st level, in lieu of having a familiar, a wizard may choose instead to gain a bonus metamagic feat. In addition, wizards may choose to gain bonus quick reference spells and intimate knowledge spells as metamagic feats. However, with these spells, they will always be quick reference or intimate knowledge. Note: if you use a metamagic feat to gain a spell as intimate knowledge, it must first be a quick-reference spell for you, either by level choosing it to be such when you level up or using a feat to make it so.

Edit: Instead of arcane spell failure percentage dice, wizards use the armor check penalty for the type of armor they wear when casting spells that have a somatic component.

 

[Nail]

Re: nerfed wizards

I'm afraid I don't have much to add here, as this style of spell casting conflicts with my own.....I like to keep spell casting as simple as possible, both to speed play and reduce confusion. Even with that goal in mind, the magic system can still balloon out of control.

But oh!, Hobbit Goddess! The following idea is brilliant, and will be "Yoinked" immediately!

At 1st level, in lieu of having a familiar, a wizard may choose instead to gain a bonus metamagic feat.

Flexible, balanced, allows for other directions for that wizard (I'd allow Sor to do it too), and most players would chose that over an annoying, wimpy, vulnerable familiar any day .....

Thanks!

 

[Corlon]

so tired...

too much math...

cannot comprehend...

I'll return in the morning...

But the sorcerer class is pretty cool!

 

[Guilt Puppy]

Re: nerfed wizards

One is art, the other science.

Personally, I look at it as "one is art, the other is craft," but that's mainly because I see the art/science dichotomy as flawed (as is the art/craft one, but those are at least ends of a spectrum, rather than overlapping paradigms )

Regardless, it seems like you have the same ideas about spellcasting that I do, and a system similar to one I've been considering... What I'm wondering is, have you played this at all? How has it worked out? Do casters simply destroy everything, or do they burn themselves out too quickly to be useful?

 

[Afrodyte]

Guilt Puppy>

I have not had the opportunity to playtest these new rules, but it would be great if someone else tried it. After all, if it can work without me being there, I think there could be something worthwhile about it.