D&D (2024) New stealth rules.

[ezo]

Post 1001 in the thread, keep it going!

 

[pemerton]

That is absolutely wild reading. Of course "finding" refers to finding as defined earlier paragraph on the same topic. And these other hypothetical ways of "finding" are not defined at all. This is basically just inventing a rule that is not there.

In the OP, there is no "finding as defined in an earlier paragraph" - there's interpolation by a youtuber. (At least that's my understanding.)

Has the rules text on finding and on vision more generally been posted yet?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

In the OP, there is no "finding as defined in an earlier paragraph" - there's interpolation by a youtuber. (At least that's my understanding.)

Has the rules text on finding and on vision more generally been posted yet?

I don't think so, so it is possible there would be something there. Then again, the said Youtuber explicitly specified how finding happens, so presumably it is spelled out in the rules.

 

[Remathilis]

all it does is give you the invisible condition, anything beyond that is your ‘wishful thinking’

That's basically what I said. If you compare the two, you see the difference is in execution, not effect.

Hide Action
Grants the Invisible Condition
Requires you start in 3/4 or greater cover and/or heavy concealment
Cannot be done while you are being observed
Needs a DC 15 stealth test
Lasts until you are found, make a noise, or attack
Can be found with a Perception test vs stealth roll

Invisibility Spell
Grants the Invisible Condition
Does not require you have cover or concealment
Can be done while you are being observed
Does not require any sort of test
Lasts until you attack, cast a spell, deal damage, lose concentration, or after 1 hour
Cannot be found using simple Perception (? I'm not sure how this is handled. The spell doesn't say, so it might be part of the Search action)
Requires a 2nd level Spell slot.

So while the hide action requires harder to meet criteria of not being seen to hide, the spell just hand-waves those conditions away for the same benefit. It's an illusion spell to boot, so it makes sense the in-game fiction is that you are using illusion to mask yourself in a way that couldn't be done via mundane stealth but notice I did NOT say translucent.

 

[mellored]

Lasts until you are found, make a noise, or attack
...
Lasts until you attack, cast a spell, deal damage, lose concentration, or after 1 hour

So... hidden also lets you cast non-verbal spells.

Like GOO warlock using Physic Spells to cast Mind Sliver..

 

[Remathilis]

So... hidden also lets you cast non-verbal spells.

Like GOO warlock using Physic Spells to cast Mind Sliver..

I would consider mind sliver an attack, but you are potentially correct.

 

[mellored]

I would consider mind sliver an attack, but you are potentially correct.

It says attack roll.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I think the Hide rules are clear enough, but if someone says the Invisibility spells no longer provide pure invisibility, ie, complete transparency, I’d agree with that. The spells would appear to grant less “Invisible Man” invisibility, and more like Predator invisibility.

Which, functionally... what is the difference?

I played Halo, and invisibility was Predator invisibility, and got more and more visible as you moved faster. Still had people wrecking me with me having no idea they were there.

 

[Chaosmancer]

This is why hide rolls should IMO be done blind. You can't be uncomfortable about a 10 or 11 if you don't know that's what you rolled.

No, your rolls should not be done blind. Because that prevents you from activating limited use abilities to modify the roll. The fact you want someone to not know they rolled a 10 does not override their need to know that to activate any of a dozen things they have to alter that result.

 

[Chaosmancer]

That is absolutely wild reading. Of course "finding" refers to finding as defined earlier paragraph on the same topic. And these other hypothetical ways of "finding" are not defined at all. This is basically just inventing a rule that is not there.

Does someone automatically fail an athletics roll to jump to the moon?

If the answer is yes, what is the rules basis for this decision? What rule would you cite?

If the answer is that you would cite the rule in the beginning of the book, which determines that the DM only calls for a check when the outcome is uncertain, and the outcome is not uncertain that a character cannot jump to the moon... then why can we not declare that the outcome is not uncertain that an enemy can find someone who stops hiding and stands directly in front of them?

What about the invisibility spell? The invisibility spell is not broken by an enemy finding you. Therefore the circumstance does not apply. The invisibility spell gives you the condition regardless of line of sight, or other effects. The Hide action invisibility is broken when an enemy finds you.