D&D (2024) New stealth rules.

[Argyle King]

Has a single person in this 123-page thread actually written up what their preferred Stealth rules are, or is this thread only to repeat again and again that the current rules are mid?

Multiple people (including myself) have given ideas for how it might be fixed with as little as 2 or 3 sentences or by simply having a "hidden" condition as part of the game.

 

[mellored]

why are there 123 pages of people tearing apart the rules if the issue is only this small?

People think hidden ends when you leave cover.

123 pages are people denying the rule is missing, tearing apart the rules in order to find it, saying that it's stupid that the rule is missing, and holding out hope the rule might still be DMG.


Also some people think having it end if you don't have cover at the end of your turn would be more fun.

 

[Shardstone]

People think hidden ends when you leave cover.

123 pages are people denying the rule is missing, tearing apart the rules in order to find it, saying that it's stupid that the rule is missing, and holding out hope the rule might still be DMG.


Also some people think having it end if you don't have cover at the end of your turn would be more fun.

That bolded idea indeed does sound fun.

 

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

Has a single person in this 123-page thread actually written up what their preferred Stealth rules are, or is this thread only to repeat again and again that the current rules are mid?

Here's my preferred stealth rules: Stealth - Skills - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database

 

[Weiley31]

Real talk though, I think WoTC insistence in making a number of things as "Conditions" for 2024 is probably one of the bases for the issues we are seeing.

Would things be different if they didn't do that? Maybe, maybe not. But, I feel like SOME KIND of seedling was planted there leading to all this.

 

[mellored]

People think hidden ends when you leave cover.

123 pages are people denying the rule is missing, tearing apart the rules in order to find it, saying that it's stupid that the rule is missing, and holding out hope the rule might still be DMG.


Also some people think having it end if you don't have cover at the end of your turn would be more fun.

Just realized that's the 5 stages of grief.

Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, house rule.

 

[Shardstone]

Real talk though, I think WoTC insistence in making a number of things as "Conditions" for 2024 is probably one of the bases for the issues we are seeing.

Would things be different if they didn't do that? Maybe, maybe not. But, I feel like SOME KIND of seedling was planted there leading to all this.

I prefer the condition-focused method though. I like conditions a lot, and have actually created like 20+ myself that I use in my own games. I find that expanding conditions expands the foundation of the game but it does so in a way that doesn't stress the system. It does require a DM to apply human intellect and decision making to it though.

 

[Shardstone]

Here's my preferred stealth rules: Stealth - Skills - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database

Stealing from PF2E is wise indeed.

 

[Scott Christian]

I think that's easy to say for someone experienced with the game.

It also assumes that D&D often follows what would be intuitive.

Questions I've had from new players have ranged from "why can't I target the giant eye of the [Beholder]" to "there aren't any rules that my deity can take away my powers, so why is cutting the hamstrings of these children and using them as a distraction so we can get away something I wouldn't do?"

The second one was at an Adventurer’s League event.

Because all the books clearly say the DM is the final arbiter of a ruling. If they chose to skip the first couple pages in the PHB explaining the game, because as you said, they are new, then that is something they should read. If they still don't understand, they can read the first few pages of the DMG, and it says the same thing. If they can't bother to read four pages and insist on arguing, then perhaps this isn't the game for them, since they can't seem to comprehend the basic premise of the entire game.

 

[Chaosmancer]

So you don't think the hide invisibility ends when the conditions for hiding no longer apply?

I have hard time gauging from your posts what you think this RAI that is so obvious even is, beyond, just ignore the rules and rule what seems sensible, which is not a ringing endorsement for the quality of the rules. I can do that without any rules, so there is no need to pay WotC for it.

Sorry, didn't realize you had missed all of my earlier posts on this.

If a PC hides, then quickly moves from cover to cover on their turn, they continue to benefit from the hide action.
If a PC hides, then slips out from an empty room, behind a guard patrol, and down a different hallway, they continue to benefit from the hide action.
If a PC hides, then scrambles up to cling to the ceiling as a guard patrol rounds the corner and passes under them, they continue to benefit from the hide action.
If a PC hides, then rushes out of cover to stab a guard in the back, then they lose the benefits of the hide action after their attack.

If a PC hides, then bursts out of cover in front of a guard, makes funny faces at them, flips them the double bird, then darts down a hallway... they do not continue to have the benefits of the hide action unless they make a new stealth check.