D&D (2024) New stealth rules.

[Pauln6]

This doesn't fix anything. It just forces the character to re-roll stealth every six seconds while moving down an empty hallways, because they "used movement" even though nothing else changed.

Forcing players to continuously re-roll their stealth checks just forces them to eventually fail, and is bad design.

No I don't think it does because if all you are doing is moving silently, the likelihood is that you have cover or concealment from those listening. Those asleep have their eyes closed, those inside the room have limited views through the door etc.

But I agree, it should not be an absolute rule. Stepping up behind someone who is focused looking the other way should not automatically break your stealth.

 

[Pauln6]

It means that if you don't end your turn fully behind something and out of sight(cover) or with concealment(darkness, light bushes, etc.), you automatically lose the invisible condition and are seen. How I would run it is that even if you do end your turn with one of those, you would still be subject to the perception check while not concealed or covered. And of course you can be seen even with concealment with a successful perception check.

Can a rogue stealth as a bonus action, move and then hold their action to react to whatever the guard does to stay out of sight?

 

[aco175]

Can a rogue stealth as a bonus action, move and then hold their action to react to whatever the guard does to stay out of sight?

I'm picturing something you describe as using cunning action to hide neat to the door before you enter the room, move into the room 15ft up to the guard, and take a ready action. I'm not sure you can ready against two actions. You may want to more the rest of the way past the guard as your objective, but also want to stop and attack if you think the guard sees you.

I more see it as moving while hidden maybe should tell you if you become seen and will lose the condition at the end your round. You sneak around the corner into the room and you can tell the guard sees you by the look on his face. It is not his turn yet, so you can decide to attack before the condition goes away on his turn or skip past him before he can react. If you want to attack, you gain advantage on the initiative roll and advantage like normal and if you just move past him, we roll initiative to see if he goes first and wants to do something before you flee down the hall.

Now could the guard see you and make a bluff check to not give away seeing you?

 

[OB1]

This doesn't fix anything. It just forces the character to re-roll stealth every six seconds while moving down an empty hallways, because they "used movement" even though nothing else changed.

Forcing players to continuously re-roll their stealth checks just forces them to eventually fail, and is bad design.

If they're moving down an empty halway, there is no need to take the hide action every turn. They can just walk down it. If they want to do so stealthly, and there is a meaningful chance of failure, the DM can ask for a Dexterity (Stealth) check.

 

[FrogReaver]

If they're moving down an empty halway, there is no need to take the hide action every turn. They can just walk down it. If they want to do so stealthly, and there is a meaningful chance of failure, the DM can ask for a Dexterity (Stealth) check.

I don’t think that’s how stealth is intended to be handled in 2024. There’s a reason you are granted the invisible condition. There’s a reason the rules spell out what breaks that condition. There’s also rules on how to find a creature, passive perception and search action. Asking for a stealth check each time you happen across a new creature just isn’t the 2024 method for stealth because outside of breaking the invisible condition there’s no meaningful chance of failure.

 

[Maxperson]

Can a rogue stealth as a bonus action, move and then hold their action to react to whatever the guard does to stay out of sight?

I doubt it. A ready action requires specificity and "Whatever the guard does" is too vague. You could hold the reaction to react to the guard calling for help, or the guard moving into sight, or something else that is specific.

 

[OB1]

I don’t think that’s how stealth is intended to be handled in 2024. There’s a reason you are granted the invisible condition. There’s a reason the rules spell out what breaks that condition. There’s also rules on how to find a creature, passive perception and search action. Asking for a stealth check each time you happen across a new creature just isn’t the 2024 method for stealth because outside of breaking the invisible condition there’s no meaningful chance of failure.

There is a difference between sneaking and hiding. Hiding implies staying in one position. You don't say, I'm going to hide down the hallway past the guards. That's why I don't ask for the check again if you don't move, because you are still hiding. That's how you would set up an ambush for a patrol (thus gaining surprise on your first turn, and getting advantage on your first attack).

What 2024 has done with Hide, Influence, and Search is to give players a way to ask for a specific roll with their action. The DM still has the ability to call for a check based on what the players say they are doing in response to the scene the DM has described (basic order of play, which, when you are in an exploration scene, would happen when the PCs say they are going to try and sneak past the guards. If they instead say they want to hide and wait for the guards to pass them by, that would be the Hide action.

 

[FrogReaver]

There is a difference between sneaking and hiding. Hiding implies staying in one position.

Not in the rules. If hiding was meant to not move then the rules would have said moving breaks or might break it.

You don't say, I'm going to hide down the hallway past the guards.

I’ve often hid from my wife while walking up behind here.

That's why I don't ask for the check again if you don't move, because you are still hiding. That's how you would set up an ambush for a patrol (thus gaining surprise on your first turn, and getting advantage on your first attack).

One other form of ambush is to stay hidden from someone while you follow them until they are where you want to ambush them at.

What 2024 has done with Hide, Influence, and Search is to give players a way to ask for a specific roll with their action. The DM still has the ability to call for a check based on what the players say they are doing in response to the scene the DM has described (basic order of play, which, when you are in an exploration scene, would happen when the PCs say they are going to try and sneak past the guards. If they instead say they want to hide and wait for the guards to pass them by, that would be the Hide action.

I’m not saying he cannot. I’m saying it’s not RAI or RAW for him to do so.

 

[Scott Christian]

There is a difference between sneaking and hiding. Hiding implies staying in one position. You don't say, I'm going to hide down the hallway past the guards. That's why I don't ask for the check again if you don't move, because you are still hiding. That's how you would set up an ambush for a patrol (thus gaining surprise on your first turn, and getting advantage on your first attack).

What 2024 has done with Hide, Influence, and Search is to give players a way to ask for a specific roll with their action. The DM still has the ability to call for a check based on what the players say they are doing in response to the scene the DM has described (basic order of play, which, when you are in an exploration scene, would happen when the PCs say they are going to try and sneak past the guards. If they instead say they want to hide and wait for the guards to pass them by, that would be the Hide action.

Isn't there one skill that covers these actions though - stealth. So those differences, outside of the narrative, have no mechanical differences. That is the thing with hiding or sneaking, it all uses the same skill. I mean, sure there might be an instance where you are wedged above the door and the DM might ask for an acrobatics roll, but that is a rarity in the sneaking/hiding world.

Combine that with what we know of the rules and skill challenges: DM declares DC or calls for contested challenges. Now insert a fraction of common sense, and none of this is confusing to players or DMs.

In the end, it is the DM's call - pretty much the way it has always been. And in my experience, most table disagreements come from the setting not being described accurately.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

What 2024 has done with Hide, Influence, and Search is to give players a way to ask for a specific roll with their action. The DM still has the ability to call for a check based on what the players say they are doing in response to the scene the DM has described (basic order of play, which, when you are in an exploration scene, would happen when the PCs say they are going to try and sneak past the guards. If they instead say they want to hide and wait for the guards to pass them by, that would be the Hide action.

Right. So this is the reason why people keep bringing up "PC keeps rerolling" etc with this, whilst they wouldn't with other skills. Yes, normally it is the GM that calls for rolls, but they have codified hiding into a specific action that invokes a skill roll. So this to me implies that the player can keep clicking their hide button every six seconds as long as the clearly specified conditions are met.