D&D (2024) New stealth rules.

[FrogReaver]

D&D switches game modes all the time. Lots of actions work differently when they're taken in different modes of play. That's not new, nor does it contradict any rules being discussed here.

There’s no different game modes. One can do combat section actions out of combat. One can take non-combat section actions inside combat. One typically doesn’t see either much, but it’s allowed by the rules. Combat and non-combat can feel like different games, but that’s because of the kinds of things you typically want to try to do in both, not because the rules suddenly work differently.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

the invisibility spell seems to disagree with that

I mean technically the invisible condition doesn't in any point say that people actually cannot see you. It just says its effects don't work, if people see you. So by RAW the only thing it does is give you advantage to initiative...

 

[Thommy H-H]

so you are saying it makes no difference whether someone casts invisibility before attempting to sneak past some guards or not?

No, because if there was no cover available, they might need to cast it to be able to sneak by at all. Or it would affect the required behaviour while sneaking: the Invisibility spell lets you maintain the Invisible condition even when you make a sound louder than a whisper, so a character could sneak through much more quickly (for example), resulting in fewer checks required. Again, this is in a situation where we're abstracting "sneaking into a fortress" or similar, and not going round-by-round. I would be discussing this situation with the player, figuring out what they were trying to do and ruling based on what preparations they made. Casting Invisibility would be part of that equation.

 

[Thommy H-H]

There’s no different game modes. One can do combat section actions out of combat. One can take non-combat section actions inside combat. One typically doesn’t see either much, but it’s allowed by the rules. Combat and non-combat can feel like different games, but that’s because of the kinds of things you typically want to try to do in both, not because the rules suddenly work differently.

Right. So a player takes the Hide action while we're exploring a dungeon and running things in abstract time. That's fine. Never said it wasn't. But what that means - what effect gaining the Invisible condition has, by these rules - is up to me as DM to determine, because Invisible means something specific, and some of the things it means might not be relevant while exploring a dungeon. But I might say, for example, that if we roll a random encounter, they're already Invisible and get advantage on their initiative check, as per the Invisible condition.

 

[FrogReaver]

Right. So a player takes the Hide action while we're exploring a dungeon and running things in abstract time. That's fine.

Glad we are on the same page about that.

Never said it wasn't. But what that means - what effect gaining the Invisible condition has, by these rules - is up to me as DM to determine, because Invisible means something specific,

What the heck?

'It's up to the DM, because invisible means something specific'?

If invisible means something specific then how it works is not up to the DM.

and some of the things it means might not be relevant while exploring a dungeon.

Sure, but what it means is specific whether relevant or not.

But I might say, for example, that if we roll a random encounter, they're already Invisible and get advantage on their initiative check, as per the Invisible condition.

If monsters show up and PCs are invisible... then there doesn't have to be a combat encounter at all. Monsters need to find the PC's first, and even know to take search actions or have a reason to be taking them here.

 

[Charlaquin]

These stealth rules actually make perfect sense if their goal was to emulate stealth in Skyrim. You go behind some rocks or into a dark corner, press the crouch button, and then as long as you stay crouched and your stealth skill check is high enough, you don’t attack, cast a spell, or make too much noise, NPCs just won’t notice you’re there at all.

The problem is stealth in Skyrim is famously absurd, and people actively make fun of the idea of others treating D&D stealth as if it worked that way.

 

[FrogReaver]

Someone at Gencon get Jeremy Crawford to sit down and outline a turn by burn description of how this would play out in practise.

I imagine if asked that way he would give a decent ruling about how hide works, that would make invisibility not work (since he wouldn't be thinking about invisibility spell when answering the question).

 

[FrogReaver]

These stealth rules actually make perfect sense if their goal was to emulate stealth in Skyrim. You go behind some rocks or into a dark corner, press the crouch button, and then as long as you stay crouched and your stealth skill check is high enough, you don’t attack, cast a spell, or make too much noise, NPCs just won’t notice you’re there at all.

The problem is stealth in Skyrim is famously absurd, and people actively make fun of the idea of others treating D&D stealth as if it worked that way.

Doesn't it work similarly in most crpg's? Like how does it work in BG3?

Also, in most of those CRPG's enemies do have a cone of vision or radius where they begin to notice you even if in stealth mode.

 

[Maxperson]

Citation needed. Invisible grants you advantage on your attack rolls, disadvantage on attack rolls that target you, and you're not eligible to be targeted by effects requiring line of sight. That's it. It's a general set of rules that covers all kinds of situations where you aren't visible.

Nah. Not going to cite invisible meaning invisible condition and vice versa. I think you’re probably bright enough to figure that one out on your own.

 

[SkidAce]

But running in armour would involve making a noise louder than a whisper. Hell, even walking in armour in a quiet room would make more noise than a whisper. I wear a rucksack for work and the rattle of my chewing gum pot when I walk fast is louder than a whisper. If I walk slowly and carefully, that rattle goes away.

Unless you did a PROPER EQUIPMENT CHECK before heading to work troop!

Pack your gear with socks to reduce clatter! Tape all those straps together! Jump up and down in place and have your buddy do a buddy check...SHEESH.

/cough ahem

sorry flashbacks...