D&D (2024) New stealth rules.

[Kinematics]

The Invisibility spell grants you those benefits even if you're clanking around in full plate armor. The Hide action grants you those benefits as long as you're careful of your behavior, and you don't place yourself in a position to get specifically noticed.

The problem is that the bolded part isn’t actually stated in the rules text.

Don't get specifically noticed == Don't get found. The rules do state that getting found ends the condition.

I was trying to avoid just repeating the rule.

I don’t know, to me this demonstrates that language is imprecise, not more.

When I misplace my keys, I am aware that they are in the house, but in no way does that mean I found them

Yeah, but if you've misplaced your keys, do you have enough information on their location to just go grab them? Or do you have to actively search in order to find them?

Just being in the house isn't enough information. On the other hand, if you heard the keys clatter against the floor, you may know that they fell behind the couch, even if you can't directly see them, and thus have enough information to move the couch and retrieve them in short order.

Likewise, a guard may know a notorious thief is hiding in the house, but not know exactly where, and thus have to spend time searching the house room by room, and hope not to get ambushed. But if the cat is pawing at the wardrobe, that may be the indicator he needs to find the thief.

 

[Charlaquin]

I agree they were substantively better, but I think the 2014 Hiding rules were one of 5e's glaring weak points due to their ambiguity. My campaign documentation spends more time on clarifying/houseruling how I run the 2014 hiding rules than any other topic, by far.

Reportedly, the reason they were ambiguous was that they found in the D&D Next playtest that they were not going to be able to get consensus from open playtest participants on any specific stealth rules; too many people with too many different opinions on how it should work that were too strongly held. So, simply saying “the DM decides when circumstances are appropriate to hide” allowed them to accommodate everyone’s preferred stealth mechanics. I think in this instance, it was a smart move.

 

[Remathilis]

Nah, it’s worse hide, because it has a limited duration and costs a limited resource to do.

But it doesn't require a DC 15 roll, can be done without cover/concealment, and done under direct observation. That's a fair trade for someone who isn't proficient in Stealth and doesn't mind using a slot to do it.

Compare to Find Traps, Enhance Ability or Spider Climb and measure accordingly.

 

[Maxperson]

Seems fine to me. What is not working for you? Sorry, I'm not digging through 81 thread pages, this afternoon…

What's not working is that once you hide...

1) you get the same exact condition as magical invisibility, along with all the advantages, including the ability to walk out into the open without losing the invisible condition.
2) Hiding species how to find someone who is hiding, which by RAW are creatures who make a perception check equal to or higher than the hide check, or if you are an enemy. Absent being an enemy and success with perception, you cannot overcome the invisible condition.

The hide rules are sloppy(and that's being generous) and cause the above. Now, we can all just say that it doesn't make sense and if someone would see you, they do, but that's not RAW. We also say that it doesn't really make you invisible per the invisible condition, but that's also not RAW.

 

[FrogReaver]

Don't get specifically noticed == Don't get found. The rules do state that getting found ends the condition.

I was trying to avoid just repeating the rule.

The hiding rule specifically says how creatures can find you and it's by the Search action (which involves a wisdom - perception check against your stealth DC).

 

[Xetheral]

Reportedly, the reason they were ambiguous was that they found in the D&D Next playtest that they were not going to be able to get consensus from open playtest participants on any specific stealth rules; too many people with too many different opinions on how it should work that were too strongly held. So, simply saying “the DM decides when circumstances are appropriate to hide” allowed them to accommodate everyone’s preferred stealth mechanics. I think in this instance, it was a smart move.

Perhaps it was the best available option. But while I'm fine with the general rule of leaving it up to the DM, the sheer number of loose ends it left are frustrating to have to clean up for my own campaigns, and to have preemptively clarify with the DM prior to being a player.

For an example recall the old debate over whether Cloak of Elvenkind provides permanent super-advantage for all stealthy characters or whether it is literally useless for anyone who lacks an ability that lets them hide in LOS.

I'm amused (or perhaps despairing is a better term) that they managed to take that edge case of a single item being overpowered or useless depending on interpretation, and turn that dichotomy into a feature of the basic hiding rules in 2024.

 

[Maxperson]

The hiding rule specifically says how creatures can find you and it's by the Search action (which involves a wisdom - perception check against your stealth DC).

They don't say search action. They just say successful perception check. I wouldn't require an action to roll to see if they beat the hide check.

 

[FrogReaver]

Taken from here

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@Maxperson

It was stated here, but not I'm wondering if the red text was just intended to be commentary.

 

[Prism]

What's not working is that once you hide...

1) you get the same exact condition as magical invisibility, along with all the advantages, including the ability to walk out into the open without losing the invisible condition.
2) Hiding species how to find someone who is hiding, which by RAW are creatures who make a perception check equal to or higher than the hide check, or if you are an enemy. Absent being an enemy and success with perception, you cannot overcome the invisible condition.

The hide rules are sloppy(and that's being generous) and cause the above. Now, we can all just say that it doesn't make sense and if someone would see you, they do, but that's not RAW. We also say that it doesn't really make you invisible per the invisible condition, but that's also not RAW.

I think 1) is one of the main sticking points of this discussion. Some of us think that in combat you should be able to walk out in the open and get all of the advantages of invisibility - exactly the same as magical invisibility. For what its worth, those advantages are pretty limited. Others feel that magical invisibility should trump non magical invisibility (hiding).

 

[Maxperson]

@Maxperson

It was stated here, but not I'm wondering if the red text was just intended to be commentary.

I think it was commentary.