D&D (2024) New stealth rules.

[Maxperson]

That's not how it's written, but I agree that's how it should be run.

Lose your stealth when you lose cover or obscurement.

I don't understand. The invisible condition ends when the perception check meets or exceeds the hide DC. Autosuccess on the perception check should work. What am I missing?

 

[Stalker0]

Lose your stealth when you lose cover or obscurement.

The reason they might gone away with this, is to allow the rogue to jump out of the bushes and attack a guy while still getting the benefits of their stealth (in 2024 by the book the rogue loses it the second they move out of that bush).

Though if that was their intent there were far easier ways to do this, like just stating the don’t check for concealment again until the end of your turn. That would allow a rogue to run from cover to cover or jump out and attack someone with very simple rules

 

[Stalker0]

I don't understand. The invisible condition ends when the perception check meets or exceeds the hide DC. Autosuccess on the perception check should work. What am I missing?

That’s not quite correct. It ends when the search actions perception check meets or exceeds

That requires some active effort, the person has to actively engage that action. So it leads to one of two silly scenarios:

1) the person never knows to take the search action, even when the person is right there.

2) they make it and fail, and so literally cannot see the person right in front of them

 

[mellored]

I don't understand. The invisible condition ends when the perception check meets or exceeds the hide DC. Autosuccess on the perception check should work. What am I missing?

Well first you don't want it on the invisible condition, you want it in the hide rules.

Second, walking in front of someone doesn't autosucced a perception check (or auto end the stealth).

Makes sense for a DM to run it that way, but we need to actually get it added to the rules.

 

[mellored]

The reason they might gone away with this, is to allow the rogue to jump out of the bushes and attack a guy while still getting the benefits of their stealth

Fair.

Though that feels more like a feature, not the base rules. But I wouldn't object very hard.

Though if that was their intent there were far easier ways to do this, like just stating the don’t check for concealment again until the end of your turn.

That's also reasonable.

It still lets you slip past a guard. But not sit and have a quiet picnic in front of them.

 

[DavyGreenwind]

So, per the Hide rules, the condition ends if the enemy finds you. The way I read it, the enemy needs to succeed on a Search check only when you are heavily obscured or behind three quarters cover. If you are no longer heavily obscured or behind cover, the condition ends if the enemy looks at you. It is not clear from the wording, but that's how I would play it.

 

[borringman]

2) they make it and fail, and so literally cannot see the person right in front of them

Well to be fair, this happens IRL and to large extent is the point. Ambush hunters will lie perfectly still for hours until unsuspecting prey strolls right up to them, and I mean right up to them.

BUT that kind of stealth usually involves being motionless in a great deal of cover. As it turns out, moving around the open isn't a great recipe for not getting noticed. Now, D&D isn't even trying to go for realism, obviously, and that's being used as creative license to "simplify" the rules. We're going for the Hollywood version of stealth, fine. FWIW I'm not against simplicity, so I'm all for D&D trying to make this simpl-er.

I just don't think these are good rules. To your point, I can see all sorts of scenarios where these mechanics lead to nonsensical outcomes. That's just me, though.

 

[mamba]

Though if that was their intent there were far easier ways to do this, like just stating the don’t check for concealment again until the end of your turn. That would allow a rogue to run from cover to cover or jump out and attack someone with very simple rules

that is what I will do, you lose invisible if you do not end your turn in cover (same conditions as the hide action)

 

[OB1]

that only applies for two of the three cases mentioned in the condition


we had some upthread, hide behind a bush, gain the invisible condition, step out and walk past the guards

And the third case only applies if you have the invisible condition before combat starts.

As for your scenario, I addressed that earlier. If you are in combat and walk past the guards, they see you do that. You may become invisible to them again if you break line of site, but that doesn't mean they don't know what direction you went. At that point, one of two things is possible, combat is over and the rules of what happened next are determined by the social and exploration pillars (ability checks) or the guards take the search action looking for you in the direction you went. Noteably, if you went around a corner while still in initative with your movement and they go around that corner, they would be able to see you again and so could target you with an attack.

Not seeing where the problem occurs. In combat, I can walk past guards anytime I want on my turn unless they are blocking me some way.

 

[DavyGreenwind]

Exactly. I don't think the Hide action is replacing stealth checks. Hide only works with cover or heavy obscurity. The way I read it, the active Search is necessary to see you when covered or obscured, but if you are no longer covered or obscured, you cannot benefit from the Hide action (aka, the Invisible condition ends). This understanding does not conclusively follow from the reading, but it does so plausibly, and makes the most sense.