D&D (2024) New stealth rules.

[mamba]

I think that any legitimate way of finding the hidden character has to count. Otherwise, why say it? Also, if the character is invisible as per "cannot be seen" then how does a search (perception) break the Invisible condition in the first place?

it doesn't, the break condition that ends invisibility is in the Hide skill, not in the Invisible condition. So if you were invisible as per the spell, you still would be invisible until the duration runs out.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yes! but in the interest of making this somewhat narratively sane, I would suggest that "A creature find you" includes but is not limited to the Search Action.

It’s WotC’s job to make the rules narratively sane, not mine. Obviously I will run it in a narratively sane way at my own table, but the fact that I have to interpret this rule in a way that requires it to do something it doesn’t directly say it does, is a flaw in the rule as written. One that I think it’s important to point out, and that I think warrants a swift errata.

 

[mamba]

I believe your claim is that the only way to find the invisible character is by a search action but the sentence saying why the condition end does not say that, it says "then enemy finds you".

if they mean 'can see you' why would they say 'find' instead of 'see'

 

[Iosue]

Quoting Treantmonk, "nowhere is it mentioned what it is for or how it is used."

No where in the PHB, that is.

Based on other things I’ve heard, like the list of possible skill DCs not being in the PHB, I’m assuming that all adjudication tools, such as passive checks, are going to be in the DMG.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Then you are stuck playing whatever rules your DM uses. So it still doesn't matter what the rules are.

A player either can use whatever Stealth rules they want, or have to use whatever Stealth rules their DM wants. So either way there's no point in being concerned with what is written in the book.

Unless you're buying a book full of rules you don't like.

 

[Iosue]

This seems to me to be associated with the issue of the invisibility condition not ending when an enemy sees you - it ends when an enemy 'finds you' - which seems to require the search action.

Now maybe we will be told that 'find you' was natural language and applies to things like guards seeing you without making a search check.

The Hide action rule is written with the assumption that the hiding character will remain hidden, thus requiring a search check, not that they will say, “Yay, now by the rules my successful Hide action means I have magical invisibility!” and walk out in full view of the guards.

Ditto the use of “somehow” in “somehow sees you.” If you have magical invisibility and walk around in a rain storm, the enemy can “somehow” see you. If you’re Hiding, and striving to stay hidden, but the enemy has tremorsense, the enemy “somehow” sees you.

If you’ve used the Hide action to get the Invisible condition, and then walk out in front of the guards, the guards “somehow” see you, because they see you.

 

[Kinematics]

if they mean 'can see you' why would they say 'find' instead of 'see'

Because they may not be "seeing" you. See: Blindsense, tremorsense, etc.

 

[Charlaquin]

The Hide action rule is written with the assumption that the hiding character will remain hidden, thus requiring a search check, not that they will say, “Yay, now by the rules my successful Hide action means I have magical invisibility!” and walk out in full view of the guards.

If they didn’t want players to say that, they probably shouldn’t have written rules that say a successful hide check makes you invisible. Like, it’s bizarre to me that the idea that players would assume the rules saying they’re invisible would mean they’re invisible is such an outlandish notion to people.

 

[Kinematics]

If they didn’t want players to say that, they probably shouldn’t have written rules that say a successful hide check makes you invisible. Like, it’s bizarre to me that the idea that players would assume the rules saying they’re invisible would mean they’re invisible is such an outlandish notion to people.

Only in the sense that some insist that invisible means "impossible to see", rather than "is not (currently) visible".

 

[strawpberry]

I know D&D really hates rules about which direction a character is facing, but I feel like some "sneak up on" or "sneak past" rules here would really help ease some DM burden...