D&D (2024) New stealth rules.

[Micah Sweet]

But it's a difficult thing to adjudicate - any player whose character is set up for stealth will claim that they're capable of stepping very quietly - and will also feel very arbitrary in many situations. Like, if the guards are 100 feet away in a rainstorm and having a conversation with each other, is there any good in-world reason why a few coins jingling in your pocket should give you away?

Come now. The rules clearly matter more than mere setting details. That design philosophy is all over 5.5.

 

[Charlaquin]

Personally, I would be quite happy with nerfing the invisibility spell to a type of SEP (Somebody Else's Problem) field. In other word, basic invisibility dos does not prevent others from seeing you, but it means that they generally ignore you because they believe that you are somebody else's problem.

This would also be an instance of the spell doing something it doesn’t say it does. There should not need to be secret rules.

 

[Iosue]

‘Find you’ sounds a lot like an active thing, me stepping out of cover is not me being found. If they mean that why is it not a ‘can see’?

Because it doesn’t have to be sight. It might be that, or it might be one of various varieties of Blindsight, or abilities like Tremorsense. All that and Perception checks. “Find you” covers a wide variety of situations.

I hardly think it is the fault of the designers for not writing, “You lose the benefits of the Hide action if you stop hiding.” Particularly since all the other examples (making noise louder than a whisper, attacking, verbally casting a spell) make that clear.

 

[Pauln6]

It's worth noting that guards on guard duty are typically taking the search action unless distracted. They can choose to forego that if someone approaches openly. So a distraction technique might allow an 'invisible' character to sneak past a guard who would otherwise have spotted them.

It seems to me that the text of the invisibility spell could revert to 3e approach and say that the spell grants you heavy concealment in addition to the invisible condition. Presumably it's still an illusion rather than an alteration so some element of the spell ending is just down to people just being able to disbelieve because of the noise, the blood, or the sharp pain in your back.

The advantage of the spell is that you can automatically hide as a starting point. If that person then decides to move, surely the prevailing conditions determine whether a new stealth check is required to remain invisible. In a fight, there would be other noise. Sneaking up to a guard in a silent room would require opposed checks but the rogue is guaranteed a free attack, since the guard is searching as an action and the rogue is stealthing as a bonus action.

So I still think the stealth rules require a heavy dose of common sense.

The move silently rules have always seemed like an afterthought but now if the group of armoured fighters is walking down an empty corridor, they have to score 15 to prevent people inside the room from hearing them. That is harder than it used to be but if the doors are closed, maybe +5 is justifiable?

 

[Thommy H-H]

The invisible condition is the entirety of the effect granted the invisibility spell, so unless the condition is one ring style invisibility, the spell doesn’t grant one ring style invisibility.

The Invisibility condition is how the game represents not being seen, which includes a variety of means, magical or otherwise. Do you have an issue with Poisoned representing a whole host of different debilitating effects?

And if you're sneaking through a maximum security prison, are we talking about a combat situation or something more abstract? Because if the player is running around stabbing people, then they'll constantly be breaking their Invisibility and needing to Hide again. If they're sneaking and staying out of everyone's way, that's a Dexterity (Stealth) check vs. passive Perception, and I would determine whether that's possible given the circumstances - are there sufficient hiding places? No? Then you'll need the Invisibility spell or something similar which - in the fiction of the game - prevents you from being seen.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

This would also be an instance of the spell doing something it doesn’t say it does. There should not need to be secret rules.

I will respond with "Find Traps"

 

[Micah Sweet]

I will respond with "Find Traps"

Does that make it better?

 

[Charlaquin]

I will respond with "Find Traps"

Could you elaborate…?

 

[Steampunkette]

I will say this about D&D2024:

I kinda like that you're allowed to do the Solid Snake "Hide behind a corner from people chasing you with guns and they forget you exist" thing. I think that's A-class game design.

No. I'm not joking.

Being able to duck down an alleyway and make a Stealth Check to yank yourself up out of view or dive into a pile of trash well enough to 'vanish' and have the people chasing you turn the corner and be unable to find you enables -so- many media tropes.

Particularly the "Sneak behind someone while they're looking the wrong way" mechanic.

Unless, of course, they take the "Search" action to actively try and find you.

I would make the following changes:

1) Make it a Stealth Check against the enemy's highest passive perception (for mixed groups)

2) Make the Search Check be against your passive stealth (barring 'share stealth' mechanics)

3) Nix the use of the word Invisible which gives people unreasonable expectations of quasi-magic stealth.

4) Create the "Hidden" condition. It's basically the exact same thing as Invisibility as written, but the Invisibility spell grants you the Hidden Status rather than Stealth granting you Invisibility is a -much- easier pill for most people to swallow.

5) The Invisibility spell and other similar spells instead allow you to maintain the Hidden condition even without cover or concealment. That's how the Invisibility spell "Breaks the Rules" of stealth. That's it. Problem solved.

6) You are able to move on your turn while remaining Hidden (if you have the Hidden condition) by making an active Stealth check against the highest Passive Perception of creatures in the area. But you lose the Hidden condition if you don't end your movement with cover or concealment.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Could you elaborate…?

Find traps is pretty notorious and since 2014 and it is apparently unchanged in the new rules, fails to actually find any traps.

You sense the presence of any trap within range that is within line of sight. A trap, for the purpose of this spell, includes anything that would inflict a sudden or unexpected effect you consider harmful or undesirable, which was specifically intended as such by its creator. Thus, the spell would sense an area affected by the alarm spell, a glyph of warding, or a mechanical pit trap, but it would not reveal a natural weakness in the floor, an unstable ceiling, or a hidden sinkhole.

This spell merely reveals that a trap is present. You don't learn the location of each trap, but you do learn the general nature of the danger posed by a trap you sense.