D&D (2024) New stealth rules.

[mamba]

It's critically important for me as a player to know those two things before I pick a rogue to make a stealthy character.

I don’t see it, whether enemies can see you or not is situational. All the rules you need to decide that are there (even if they could be better), everything else is about the scenario you find yourself in or how strict / lenient the DM is, nothing in the DMG will help you there either

 

[Maxperson]

incomplete is in the eye of the beholder, the PHB should contain everything the player needs to know to play the game, anything beyond that point can be in the DMG. Not sure what hiding rules you think are in the DMG that would be relevant for the player.

As to the gods, they don’t really belong in the PHB as they are setting dependent, unlike basically anything else in it - and if anything else is, that is a case to not have it there either, like the planes

There are four very common WotC settings. Huge numbers of games are set in them. A few pages dedicated to a list of those gods would complete the cleric that will be played in one of those settings without me having to wait on the DM to finish my PC or go running to Google.

 

[Maxperson]

I don’t see it, whether enemies can see you or not is situational. All the rules you need to decide that are there (even if they could be better), everything else is about the scenario you find yourself in or how strict / lenient the DM is, nothing in the DMG will help you there either

The DMG should just be for guidance on how to apply PHB rules, not new rules affecting PCs that the players don't know about.

 

[Remathilis]

It's critically important for me as a player to know those two things before I pick a rogue to make a stealthy character. Otherwise I could very easily find out to my detriment that stealth isn't as fun/good as I thought it was and I don't want to play this character. Now I've wasted my time, the DMs time and the time the other players over something that I should have been able to see in the PHB.

You know what you need to in order to hide. What you don't know is what the DM needs to know to spot you. The factor that's missing is what elements trigger you being seen beyond your own actions (talking, attacking, etc). That's not something a player can control, it's a function of terrain/environment and NPC actions (both are under the DMs purview).

Admittedly, that's not much. But I've noticed a number of areas where the rule for an action is not strictly defined (I'm still not sure if picking a lock is a tool use or a sleight of hand check, I've seen support for both).

it says a bit more than that… it says you use the Hide action and in it, it says that you can only successfully hide when no enemies can see you. To me that is something only the DM can decide, not sure whether there will be more clarification in the DMG.


there will be some stuff, no doubt, whether concerning hiding or not. None of this should be relevant to the player though, as I said

Agreed

Right. The DMG may have extra situational detail, but reading the PHB rules should give the player roughly correct idea of their character's capabilities.

It does. You know how to hide and what benefits it gives, but you don't know what exactly NPCs can do to find you.

 

[mamba]

The DMG should just be for guidance on how to apply PHB rules, not new rules affecting PCs that the players don't know about.

I completely agree, I expect that to be the case

 

[mamba]

It does. You know how to hide and what benefits it gives, but you don't know what exactly NPCs can do to find you.

some of that too will be situational. If you are hiding in the tall grass of the savannah, they can set it on fire… no rule will ever cover every eventuality

 

[Maxperson]

You know what you need to in order to hide. What you don't know is what the DM needs to know to spot you. The factor that's missing is what elements trigger you being seen beyond your own actions (talking, attacking, etc). That's not something a player can control, it's a function of terrain/environment and NPC actions (both are under the DMs purview).

I don't need to be able to control it, but I 100% should know how terrains and environment affect my ability to hide and be spotted. A PC would know those things and as a player I need to know them in order to know whether I want to play a PC who specializes in hiding or not.

 

[mamba]

I don't need to be able to control it, but I 100% should know how terrains and environment affect my ability to hide and be spotted. A PC would know those things and as a player I need to know them in order to know whether I want to play a PC who specializes in hiding or not.

not sure what you think is missing, the Hide action covers that (even if it is not great)…

I think that is more a matter of a not so great rule than of something being in the DMG that helps you with it

 

[Epic Meepo]

You know how to hide and what benefits it gives, but you don't know what exactly NPCs can do to find you.

What happens when an NPC is hiding from you? What exactly can you do to find the NPC?

 

[Remathilis]

What happens when an NPC is hiding from you? What exactly can you do to find the NPC?

Take the search action.