D&D (2024) New stealth rules.

[FrogReaver]

I can certainly see how you've arrived at that conclusion and think it's one valid approach, but I can also see the alternative. This whole thing is kind of an odd case because that interpretation results in some pretty bizarre circumstances (salsa dancing), despite being the more obvious interpretation.

To be fair, I don't have an immediate dog in the race either way. I want to see if the DMG goes into further detail.

Perhaps you can elaborate on that other way you can see because I don’t see it. Saying those there are other interpretations is fine, but right now I’m seeing 1 interpretation and some pretzel logic trying to make another. I’m open to my mind being changed but right now I don’t see it.

 

[FrogReaver]

Really high level - what happens when a pc walks around a corner and there is a creature with the invisible creature in the hallway in front of him (the hallway has no cover, no gasses or anything else obscuring view and good lighting).

Does the pc immediately see the creature. Does the pc not see the creature. Is it a different answer depending on if the condition was applied by the invisible spell or hiding and if so what is the rules justification for that difference?

 

[Epic Meepo]

Take the search action.

Well, that's definitely one way to find the NPC.

But there are posters in this thread arguing the rules imply you can also find the hidden NPC simply by establishing line of sight to them, so some clarification in the player-facing rules would have been nice.

 

[Remathilis]

Well, that's definitely one way to find the NPC.

But there are posters in this thread arguing the rules imply you can also find the hidden NPC simply by establishing line of sight to them, so some clarification in the player-facing rules would have been nice.

Posters are arguing that the rules let you hide once and then stand in the middle of the king's courtyard in the middle of the day and flap your junk at people and there is nothing the NPCs can do as long as you are quiet and don't hit anyone. I am suggesting that DMG is going to provide guidance on that.

 

[FrogReaver]

Well, that's definitely one way to find the NPC.

But there are posters in this thread arguing the rules imply you can also find the hidden NPC simply by establishing line of sight to them, so some clarification in the player-facing rules would have been nice.

Would have been nice with some kind of statement about line of sight and its interaction with the invisible condition.

Not that I think it would solve the main issue.

Posters are arguing that the rules let you hide once and then stand in the middle of the king's courtyard in the middle of the day and flap your junk at people and there is nothing the NPCs can do as long as you are quiet and don't hit anyone. I am suggesting that DMG is going to provide guidance on that.

At best I think the DMG rules could contradict the OHB ones. I don’t think any amount of explaining can fix them.

 

[Epic Meepo]

Posters are arguing that the rules let you hide once and then stand in the middle of the king's courtyard in the middle of the day and flap your junk at people and there is nothing the NPCs can do as long as you are quiet and don't hit anyone. I am suggesting that DMG is going to provide guidance on that.

Agreed. I just wish these rules were written in such a way that the door wasn't even left open to the nonsensical outcomes I'm seeing mentioned in this thread. There's such as thing as being too concise when describing a rule, and I think that's what's happened here.

 

[FrogReaver]

Agreed. I just wish these rules were written in such a way that the door wasn't even left open to the nonsensical outcomes I'm seeing mentioned in this thread. There's such as thing as being too concise when describing a rule, and I think that's what's happened here.

Badly written rules lead to nonsensical outcomes. That to me is the problem.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

This just makes the staggered release all the more annoying. If they're one big book split into three sections, then I reckon they should have released the three together in a boxed set (like they did with Spelljammer and Planescape).

They went over that. They wanted to release them together, bit they couldn't get them all printed together, because the print runs are just too large.

The alternative to what we have would be for them to warehouse the PHB and DMG and give us all three in February.

I think you can see why they chose to do it this way. They'd miss the anniversary, miss Christmas, and pay for storage.

Or we could just be patient and be satisfied with some niggling questions for a couple of months.

 

[FrogReaver]

Really high level - what happens when a pc walks around a corner and there is a creature with the invisible creature in the hallway in front of him (the hallway has no cover, no gasses or anything else obscuring view and good lighting).

Does the pc immediately see the creature. Does the pc not see the creature. Is it a different answer depending on if the condition was applied by the invisible spell or hiding and if so what is the rules justification for that difference?

Expanding on this now that I have a bit more time. Let’s walk through a few possibilities.

1a. PC walks around the corner and see the enemy with the invisible condition that was gained by hiding.
2a. Since he sees him then assume that means he found him.
3a. Since he found him that ends the invisible condition when gained by hiding.

1b. PC walks around the corner and see the enemy with the invisible condition that was gained by the invisible spell.
2b. Since he sees him then assume that means he found him.
3b. But finding him doesnt end the invisible condition when applied by the invisibiliy spell.
4b. But seeing the enemy does end most of the benefits of the invisible condition (the ‘somehow can see you clause’).

Some people I think are trying to reverse steps 1 and 2, but if you don’t see the enemy in the fiction then there’s no basis for saying you found him. A cart before horse problem.

 

[Seramus]

Perhaps you can elaborate on that other way you can see because I don’t see it. Saying those there are other interpretations is fine, but right now I’m seeing 1 interpretation and some pretzel logic trying to make another. I’m open to my mind being changed but right now I don’t see it.

Sure! I take the phrase "The Dungeon Master decides when circumstances are appropriate for hiding" to mean the process of hiding as a whole, from the initial action that allows you begin hiding to the things you do while attempting to remain hidden, such as sneaking past a guardian. I see the final line as a mere reminder that you start the process of hiding by taking the Hide action.

But I also see how someone can read the final line as the primary one, with the rest of the lines describing only that the DM determines the circumstances to begin hiding. And the descriptive terms that come before that are goals someone might set that would inspire them to start hiding.

Either way, we're probably just spinning our wheels. I'm hoping the DMG will shine a light on the true intent.