D&D (2024) New Wild Shape

[mellored]

I actually don't think wild shape right now is particularly complicated or unbalanced, except for moon druids. For everyone else, it works pretty seamlessly because they are generally using it for problem solving, exploration, and/or movement. Usually in game it looks something like, "I wild shape into a spider and scuttle through the bars and into the next room," or "I wild shape into a dolphin so I can keep up with the ship," etc.

That's why I started the other thread.
To see if people wanted the non-moon wild shape to be combat capable. And opinions are pretty well split down the middle.
So I'm aiming for a way to have alternatives.

Also, having access to ALL animals ALL the time seems a little OP from a utility standpoint.

 

[Clint_L]

That's why I started the other thread.
To see if people wanted the non-moon wild shape to be combat capable. And opinions are pretty well split down the middle.
So I'm aiming for a way to have alternatives.

Also, having access to ALL animals ALL the time seems a little OP from a utility standpoint.

Well, they are limited by CR rating and level. Non-moon druids will seldom use an animal for combat, and they have to wait to be able to swim and then fly. So usually we are talking about choosing between a spider or a ferret or a monkey or something.

In practice, does it actually seem OP right now? I don't see folks flocking to play non-moon druids, and in my games regular druid shapeshifting doesn't feel OP to me.

 

[mellored]

In practice, does it actually seem OP right now? I don't see folks flocking to play non-moon druids, and in my games regular druid shapeshifting doesn't feel OP to me.

A little bit, yes.

Especially for players who know more about animals than usual compared to players who don't. X animal is immune to Y poison for instance. Or X frog can be frozen solid without any negative effects. X bird can fly for Y days without landing.
Compared to playing with an 8 year old who doesn't know what a ferret is.

Knowing more real world lore about swords doesn't let you be a better fighter in game.

Granted, it's not going to come up in many games, and it's not the biggest balance issue, but it would still be good to reign n the versatility of wild shape somewhat.

 

[Mecheon]

Granted, it's not going to come up in many games, and it's not the biggest balance issue, but it would still be good to reign n the versatility of wild shape somewhat.

As a counter though, when you get to higher levels, wizard got polymorph. Wizards shouldn't be better at changing people into animals than a class dedicated to doing so

Absolutely a bit too powerful at low levels, but once you hit high level, given another class is able to go "Bang, zoom, you're a T-rex, recreate Jurassic Park", no reason the moon druid shouldn't be doing comparable, especially since wizards aren't specialised on shapechanging but you are

 

[mellored]

As a counter though, when you get to higher levels, wizard got polymorph. Wizards shouldn't be better at changing people into animals than a class dedicated to doing so

Polymorph faces a similar issue of how much versatility it adds. But again, it's at the bottom of my list of things I think need fixed. Below witch bolt.

Also, just going to toss out an alternative to THP. Using the heavy armor master feature.

While in wild shape, any Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing Damage dealt to you is reduced by an amount equal to your Proficiency Bonus.

 

[James Gasik]

I wonder how Polymorph (and it's relatives) will change in the Arcane playtest.

 

[Chaosmancer]

A little bit, yes.

Especially for players who know more about animals than usual compared to players who don't. X animal is immune to Y poison for instance. Or X frog can be frozen solid without any negative effects. X bird can fly for Y days without landing.
Compared to playing with an 8 year old who doesn't know what a ferret is.

Knowing more real world lore about swords doesn't let you be a better fighter in game.

Granted, it's not going to come up in many games, and it's not the biggest balance issue, but it would still be good to reign n the versatility of wild shape somewhat.

If your DM allows you to turn into a specific animal, that is immune to a specific poison, then you are pushing things really far already. Like, I'm guessing if you had an item sunk in a vat of poisonous chemicals? But at that point most people are saying "poisonous chemicals" not "arsenic trioxide" and so it would be rather difficult to turn into an animal immune to vague poisons. Also, there are like three dozen other ways to solve a puzzle like that, so not a big deal.

Being frozen without negative effects? ... Cool? How does that do anything for you? Again, this sounds like either A) the DM came up with some elaborate puzzle which requires someone to be frozen solid to solve and the players came up with this, or B) The players have an Ocean's Fifteen style elaborate plan that involves sneaking the druid in as a frozen frog. And neither of these are problems that need addressing by worrying about the feature.

X bird can fly for days without landing? Super cool. Good luck with that. Wildshape lasts a maximum of 10 hours. Also you can't wildshape other people into that bird. So, ten hours in, you better have landed.



Honestly? All of this reads like "you shouldn't let an engineer become an artificer, because they will build a literal tank with a cannon" Yes, if the DM allows player knowledge to work mechanically, and then allows the player to bypass traps or puzzles by being clever with their IRL knowledge of animals, that can be a thing of some concern. But another player could do the same thing with principles of architecture and levers, or with an alchemy set. It is more an issue of knowing when to say yes and when to say "well, the rules don't cover this, so we'll have to figure out something else"

 

[James Gasik]

All you need is a Honey Badger form!

 

[mellored]

Honestly? All of this reads like "you shouldn't let an engineer become an artificer, because they will build a literal tank with a cannon"

That's fair.
Ok. I'll remove the prepared part. But move some stuff under moon druid instead and put back in the channel nature.

Channel Nature: Wild shape
You can use a bonus action to transform into an animal. Your form can have a number of augment according to the Druid chart (2 scaling to 6), with some augments taking more than one point.
While in wild shape, you can use Nature in place of a Deception check to avoid notice. If the creature is not native to the area, or is otherwise an unnatural combination (like a mouse with wings), you have disadvantage on this check.
Your attacks use your wisdom modifier, and deal 1+your proficiency bonus in damage.

1 point Augments:
-Thick skin: reduce all bludgeon, piercing, and slashing damage by your proficiency bonus.
-Claws: deal 1d6+wis+your proficiency bonus.
-tiny or large
-Mount: +10 move speed, can be ridden
-gain advantage on concentration checks.

2 points
-Climb speed
-Amphibious
-you can use Wis in place of Str, Con, or Dex. Can be taken more than once.

3 points
-Spider climb
-Huge size
-Multi-attack
-gain advantage on str, dex, or con checks. Can be taken more than once.
-tremmor sense

4 points
-gargantuan size
-Flying
-truesight: by combining several different senses, you can see though any illusion.

Moon Druid
3: you learn these additional augments. And can use 1 more when you wild shape.
1 point
-pounce: when you dash, you can also make an attack action at the end of your movement. Deal an extra 1d8 damage
-grapple: you can use a bonus action to grab them
-trip: you can use a bonus action to prone them

6: you learn the following augments. You gain a second extra augment.
2 points
-Venomous: immediately after you hit a target, use a bonus action to make the target makes a fortitude save or gains the poisoned condition
-Bite: 1d6+wis as a bonus action
-pact tactics

10: you learn the following augment. You gain a third extra augment.
3 points
-Web
-Elemental resistance
-Elemental damage

14: you learn the following augment. You get a four extra augment.
-???

 

[James Gasik]

I myself do like a lot of these approaches; a "build your own monster" class sounds like a lot of fun. Unfortunately, it runs right into WotC's desire to make Druids "easier to play" (which appears to be something only desired by non-Druid players).