[NFL] Pats vs. Colts - make your prediction here!

[Dr. Harry]

Honestly, so what?

If anyone thinks that what the Pats did (along with a lot of other teams) actually translated into wins that they wouldn't have otherwise had is clueless about what goes on the NFL.

You seem to be sayig that it would have no game effect if you know what plays the other team will be running, and they don't know what plays *you* will be running. That's a big difference. Now, in the case of the Jets, the Patriots did not need to cheat to beat them, which asks the question "Why the &^&^% did they cheat?"

If your paranthetical statement means something other than "we can cheat because 'everybody' is cheating", then the only thing that I can think of are the legitimate attempts to predict the other's teams plays. The difference here is that the NFL has decided that certain methods are off-limits (way off-limits in what the Pats did as per the size of the fines - unless that's just because everybody hates the Patriots).

Mangini hates Belichick and wanted to screw the Pats and make an example of them.

However Mangini feels about Belicheck, if Belicheck hadn't been cheating, then there would be nothing that could be done.

All these that keep harping on it (like Peter King, Gregg Easterbrook, etc) are doing it out of a personal agenda against Belichick and the Patriots, for whatever reason.

Any objection to Bill Belicheck doing whatever the heck he wants to do, regardless of the rules, must soley be due to a personal hate for Belicheck and the Pats?

Roger Goodell specifically said there was no further evidence of any other infraction in the past or that it affected the outcome of any past games.

I haven't found that; I did find this:

"In a letter to the Patriots, Goodell also said, 'This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field.'"

http://www.nbcsports.com/portal/sit...0VgnVCM10000075c1d240RCRD&cpsextcurrchannel=1

The Pats were punished and the league addressed it. What more can they do?

Not a lot. If Bill Belicheck exchanges his cut-up sweatshirt for a hair shirt, it will do nothing.

I don't think that it is a question for most people on "what more can they do?", but "look what kind of people Belicheck and the Pats are".

 

[GlassJaw]

I haven't found that

Yeah, interesting how a lot of reports have selectively chosen to ignore that story...coincidence? I think not.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/09/21/patriots_wont_be_hit_harder/
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=275622

"NFL commissioner Roger Goodell sent a memo to all 32 clubs last night in which he said he was satisfied the Patriots fully cooperated and complied with his instructions."

 

[Dr. Harry]

Thank you for responding. To draw together this line of discussion, here are:

Roger Goodell specifically said there was no further evidence of any other infraction in the past or that it affected the outcome of any past games.

I haven't found that

Yeah, interesting how a lot of reports have selectively chosen to ignore that story...coincidence? I think not.


"NFL commissioner Roger Goodell sent a memo to all 32 clubs last night in which he said he was satisfied the Patriots fully cooperated and complied with his instructions."

Okay. I read both of those links. I could not find in either of them the specific, explicit endorsement of :

Roger Goodell specifically said there was no further evidence of any other infraction in the past or that it affected the outcome of any past games.

While I did find:

The videotape was seized in the first quarter and Goodell later said it had no impact on the result of the game, a 38-14 Patriots victory.

as a statement that the Patriots cheating, (sorry, "misunderstanding" a pretty explicit rule) did not change the result of the Jets game, I could not find Goodell saying that the Patriots have never done that in any other game.

Roger Goodell did not say that there was evidence that the Patriots had done it in other games, but this absence is not an endorsement that the Pats never did anything. If one wished to say that after other accusations of doing the same thing, the Patriots decided to actually try it for one game and got caught, then there is no evidence to prove one way or the other.

Yes, I realize that it is impossible to prove a negative, so I am not saying that the Patriots being caught when they were constitutes *proof* that they have done this at other times, any more than I have seen the commisioner say that the Patriots never did this before.

At this point, the incident becomes part of the experience by which we individually come to individual opinions as to the, well forget sportsmanship, basic integrity of Bill Belicheck and the Patriots organization.

I don't think that the way that Belicheck responded to getting caught did him any favors.

Harry

 

[GlassJaw]

Yes, I realize that it is impossible to prove a negative, so I am not saying that the Patriots being caught when they were constitutes *proof* that they have done this at other times, any more than I have seen the commisioner say that the Patriots never did this before.

Classic. This is exactly the kind of BS that has been going on since this story broke. This is the kind of attitue that makes it personal because it's the Patriots (Also see: Peter King, Gregg Easterbrook).

In a court of law, if the prosecutors can find no evidence you committed a crime, you are acquitted. Why is this any different?

Again, Goodell's comments that came along with his ruling have been largely brushed under the carpet by the same media that wanted Belichick's head:

"Goodell said they found nothing in the tapes and documents to indicate the Patriots had used illegal videotaping during their three Super Bowl victories."

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/spo...odell__Not_out_to_erase_Patriots_episode.html

 

[Dr. Harry]

Classic. This is exactly the kind of BS that has been going on since this story broke. This is the kind of attitue that makes it personal because it's the Patriots (Also see: Peter King, Gregg Easterbrook).

Actually, I think that statements claiming that anyone who thinks the Patriots did anything wrong , or are doing something wrong or improper, or who thinks that the Colts can beat them, only has that opinion because of an unreasoning personal animus against the Patriots is making it personal.

In a court of law, if the prosecutors can find no evidence you committed a crime, you are acquitted. Why is this any different?

For one reason, it is different because they *did* break the rules.

I have seen posts saying that the Patriots cheated. The Patriots organization broke clearly defined rules, and were undisputably caught on one occasion. Am I no longer allowed to say that?

A person is accused of being a bank robber (but denies it). That person is captured and convicted of robbing a bank, then serves their time and is released. If there is no proof that the person committed other robberies, they are not charged for those

...

but I'm not going to hire them as bank guards, and I'm free to think of that person as a jerk, and use the evidence of their action as a mark of their character.

The Patriots only had one set of penalties levied against them because they were caught red-handed in one incident.

If you want to use the crime analogy, then the Patriots could be compared to O.J. Simpson.

Okay, that is an excessive and unfair comparison; the Patriots didn't kill anyone. (That we know of. ) But I think that it is still fair to use the one incident with absolute evidence as examples of what the team is.

The cheating scandal is part of what the Patriots *are*. I don't think I need to be part of some massive conspiracy against the Patriots to make that true.

(For anyone else, I'm not saying that I would be adverse in principle to being part of a giant conspiracy against the Patriots, I'd just need at least a secret decoder ring, or something ...)

Again, Goodell's comments that came along with his ruling have been largely brushed under the carpet by the same media that wanted Belichick's head:

"Goodell said they found nothing in the tapes and documents to indicate the Patriots had used illegal videotaping during their three Super Bowl victories."

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/spo...odell__Not_out_to_erase_Patriots_episode.html

Dislike the Patriots or something they did? Yer a psychotic who is only saying that cause you hate the Patriots.

I haven't seen any posts here that say that their superbowls don't count, and Roger Goodell won't take them away, but being caught doing something wrong, denying wrongdoing, then having it proved that there was wrongdoing will make it less likely that Belicheck will be believed when he denying doing anything else wrong in the same voice he used with "Spygate"

 

[dogoftheunderworld]

Patriots Still ARCH NEMISIS

Defense almost ruled the day, but Moss is demonic.

So close... crumbling around me....

 

[GlassJaw]

Wow, what a brutal game to watch. I'm surprised how good Indy's defense played. They made the Pats look pretty bad for most of the game. They looked like they started to get tired in the 4th quarter though. Pats made some big plays and Indy couldn't put it away.

However, the Pats were basically outnumbered the whole game because of the horrible officiating. Those two pass interference calls in the first half, especially the second one against Hobbs defending Wayne, were horrible.

 

[noretoc]

Usually when there are call like that, there are people on both sides. This time is was almost universal that the call was wrong.

 

[RangerWickett]

I left at the end of the 3rd quarter. Did I miss anything?

Hehehe.

So yeah, I'm at the gym working out, watching the game, and then at the end of the 4th quarter I have to hurry and leave so I could get to a dinner get-together with some friends. I'm only a part-time football fan, so could someone tell me where I might catch this game again, on TV or online? Or at least see the highlights of the 4th quarter?

 

[Inferno!]

...but Moss is demonic.

As i said at earlier in the thread Patriots are evil