Night Hag... Give Me a Break...

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

(no save) is clearly a relic of an older iteration of the game, like the drow warrior having (X2) instead of the language of a secondary attack.

Check out the Oni night haunter; it also has (no save) on one of its powers, which was errata'd to (save ends). They almost certainly just didn't catch same the error on the night hag.

In short, like nearly every other duration-based power in the game, wave of sleep should be (save ends).

sixthed

 

[useridunavailable]

sixthed

Thanks. I tried and tried to convince my DM that it was quite obvious that the power should say "save ends." Perhaps all these opinions, especially combined with the fact that the Oni Night Haunter was corrected in precisely the same way, will finally sway him. "No save" just makes absolutely no sense here, especially considering that the Dream Haunting power suggests that there is the possibility of interrupting it by becoming conscious.

Powers have a cap of duration of five minutes/one encounter unless otherwise stated. That includes (no save) and (save ends) powers explicitly.

Can you provide a page number? On page 278 of the PHB, under "Durations," it talks about sustained powers and "until the end of the encounter" powers having a limit of 5 minutes, but that's it. In fact, the customer service response regarding (save ends) powers has been that they continue until you save, period. For example, if you have ongoing damage (save ends), and you take a short rest, you still have to continue to roll saving throws or you'll eventually die.

A point of note about powers which impose petrification, for example, is that they allow 2 failed saves before a character is officially screwed (the gazes of the Medusa and Basilisk, at least). These creatures also lack an ability that allows them to auto-kill an affected creature if not slain within one round (ala Dream Haunting).

By the wording of the Remove Affliction ritual, it would be reasonable to decide that it can remove permanent unconsciousness, but the specific versus general rule suggests that it technically excludes this condition because it is omitted from the list of effects it cures. Otherwise, unless it is indeed true that powers automatically end after 5 minutes, I can't find a way to end it under RAW aside from killing the victim and bringing him or her back from the dead.

 

[useridunavailable]

That CustServ ruling on Sleep sounds like yet another thing I'd ignore from them; I haven't seen any justification for why they'd make that ruling, and I'd bet money you could talk to them at a different time and get a different answer from someone else.

Actually, there's quite a bit of evidence in RAW to support the ruling (and little or none to support the opposing view without making leaps of logic). Much of it has been presented earlier in this thread, and the issue has been beaten to death and beyond elsewhere on these boards.

 

[unan oranis]

Can you not dismiss unconciousness with a healing power, or even a dc10 heal check to prompt your helpless ally to use a healing surge?

 

[Kordeth]

Can you not dismiss unconciousness with a healing power, or even a dc10 heal check to prompt your helpless ally to use a healing surge?

Not unless the unconscious condition was caused by being below 0 hp. The "unconscious" condition on its own does not include any way to automatically wake up--you have to rely on the rules of whatever caused the unconscious condition to determine how to end it. For example, if you're asleep, you can end the unconscious condition by making a Listen check or having an ally wake you. If you're below 0 hp, you can end the unconscious condition by being healed. If you're the victim of a sleep spell, you can end the unconscious condition by making a saving throw. All of those, however, are contingent on the effect that caused the unconscious condition, not the condition itself, so they don't apply to anything other than their own specific cases.

 

[Anguirus]

While this does help to mitigate the Dream Haunting power, it still doesn't solve the problem that the only way to wake a character affected by Wave of Sleep is still to kill and then raise him or her.

Why would that be a problem? Effects end at the end of encounters.

Anyway, your DM sounds like he's playing the wrong system if he wants to act like a total jerk and screw over players. Instead of latching onto one broken monster he should just play a system/genre that is a good fit with save-or-dies and GM meanness...Paranoia, or perhaps Call of Cthulhu. Or 3E in its full Rocket Launcher Tag glory.

 

[cheshire_grin]

Powers have a cap of duration of five minutes/one encounter unless otherwise stated. That includes (no save) and (save ends) powers explicitly.

Why would that be a problem? Effects end at the end of encounters.

I've seen this stated a couple of times, but except for the reference given by useridunavailable ("On page 278 of the PHB, under "Durations," it talks about sustained powers and "until the end of the encounter" powers having a limit of 5 minutes, but that's it. In fact, the customer service response regarding (save ends) powers has been that they continue until you save, period.") nobody seems to have an actual quote or page # from either the PHB or the DMG. Does anyone know where the actual general rule that all effects end at the end of encounters is stated?

 

[Regicide]

A kiss from a prince works too.

 

[catsclaw227]

And apparently Pepsi Max, too.

 

[CapnZapp]

Aaah.... getting all nostalgic when reading this thread from a 5th edition point of view. (All you would get in the 5e forum is "do it any way you like".)