Nitpicking the Sorcerer Bloodlines

[Nellisir]

Another elemental nitpick... At 20th level, they become, like elementals, immune to crits. This is a rare ability in PF, and since such a character would more physically resemble an outsider, it seems like it might be somewhat inconsistent, especially when the bloodline text says you might be a affected by elemental forces or the descendent of an elemental outsider.

I don't understand what the nitpick is here. Do you want to know exactly -why- they become immune to crits? I think that's a flavor effect best left to the DM or player.

If you read X-Men comics, a 20th-level elemental sorcerer could undergo a transformation like Amara Aquilla (Magma), or could be the victim of a insidious transformation, like Cable (and his techno-organic virus). In either case the character's organs are largely replaced by "elemental" material. Or the character could be physically unchanged, but unconsciously manifest elemental "armor" that protects her vital areas, like Magik and her "soul armor" (does the new one have that? I don't remember). An air elemental sorcerer might "go gaseous" for a split second, or fire elemental might "transform into flame"...just for a second, and just enough to allow the (crit) to pass through. Or they might manifest physical armor that protects their vital areas.

 

[pawsplay]

I don't understand what the nitpick is here. Do you want to know exactly -why- they become immune to crits?

Yes. Elementals and oozes are some of the few that are immune in PF. Particularly, genies are not, as they are outsiders. Logically, an elemental bloodline would grant immunity to crits if it made the character similar to an elemental. That doesn't happen, though. Elemental sorcerers still have hearts and brains, still have necks and bones, and are still vulnerable to ordinary weapons. Fire elemental sorcerers aren't sheathed in flame.

And, as I noted above, many elemental sorcerers are descendents from elemental outsiders. I can't think of a good reason why someone who is 1/8 djinn or whatever is going to become immune to crits.

Coming up with an explanation of HOW they could be immune to crits seems unnecessarily acrobatic. If it's something more than "this is a logical consequence of becoming imbued with elemental power" then it's putting the cart before the horse.

 

[Nellisir]

Elemental sorcerers still have hearts and brains, still have necks and bones, and are still vulnerable to ordinary weapons. Fire elemental sorcerers aren't sheathed in flame.

Sez you.

And, as I noted above, many elemental sorcerers are descendents from elemental outsiders. I can't think of a good reason why someone who is 1/8 djinn or whatever is going to become immune to crits.

I think of it as "top-down" damage reduction. Most DR negates really low (and common) levels of damage; immunity to crits negates really high and rare levels of damage. Over time, elemental sorcerers might develop "standard" DR...say, around 30th level or so.

That said, I get where you're coming from now, and I don't think there's an answer that will satisfy you. The designers made a mechanical/rules decision, and you don't agree with it. That's cool. There's just not a lot of ways to finesse it. Personally, I think there are too many monster types in 3e & PF, and blanket design decisions like "all elementals have DR/outsiders don't have DR" just create problems. I'm not wild about 4e's "4 unique powers per monster" either, but there could be a happy medium.

 

[pawsplay]

Sez you.

Well, it is possible that fire sorcerers are sheathed in flame that does not cause damage or set objects on fire.

 

[phloog]

All stacking issues aside (and I haven't read through my entire copy of the PF book), but the 'bug' seems to be allowing an abyssal sorcerer to summon angelic creatures.

As DM I'd resist that...assuming the player comes up with some answer like "My pure Eevil sorcerer is forcing him to serve despite the alignment issues", I'd house rule that this evil 'boost' would not apply - the 'mojo' allowing them to gain DR vs good is used up in the domination of the creature.

They probably should spell it out better - but my errata would be to add that Abyssal's can't summon angels, or if they do only the creatures normal DR would apply.

Frankly, an abyssal sorcerer calling on the powers of the angelic host is just a bit goofy for my tastes.

 

[freyar]

All stacking issues aside (and I haven't read through my entire copy of the PF book), but the 'bug' seems to be allowing an abyssal sorcerer to summon angelic creatures.

As DM I'd resist that...assuming the player comes up with some answer like "My pure Eevil sorcerer is forcing him to serve despite the alignment issues", I'd house rule that this evil 'boost' would not apply - the 'mojo' allowing them to gain DR vs good is used up in the domination of the creature.

They probably should spell it out better - but my errata would be to add that Abyssal's can't summon angels, or if they do only the creatures normal DR would apply.

Frankly, an abyssal sorcerer calling on the powers of the angelic host is just a bit goofy for my tastes.

I thought about that for a while, too, but what if the abyssal sorc is good-aligned? Seems perhaps like a stretch, but the abyssal bloodline comes from pretty far back in the ancestry, so I'm not sure if it should carry an alignment pull.

Seems like a simple fix might be to have the overlapping DR just be "good or evil" rather than "good and evil" (that's actually a slight downgrade for using critters that already have DR X/evil).

 

[Nellisir]

Well, it is possible that fire sorcerers are sheathed in flame that does not cause damage or set objects on fire.

I think, basically, I don't have a problem getting fairly fantastic because, well, they're -20th- level! If there's any level to throw the rules out the window and be Totally Awesome, that's it.

 

[pawsplay]

I think, basically, I don't have a problem getting fairly fantastic because, well, they're -20th- level! If there's any level to throw the rules out the window and be Totally Awesome, that's it.

Not that there are a ton of elemental sorcerers running around, but allowing these kinds of abilities seems counter to the whole "let's not screw over the rogue, and oh yeah, doesn't it make sense for something with a visible neck to have some kind of weak point?" philosophy PF has largely embraced. And hey, I said it was a nitpick, didn't I?

As far as the aligned sorcerers go, I'm houseruling that you cannot add the DR to a creature of the opposed alignment.

 

[Alzrius]

Quick threadjack, there's a new sorcerer bloodline available, the Reborn Soul, as a web enhancement for The Book of Arcane Magic.

 

[Elodan]

...
As far as the aligned sorcerers go, I'm houseruling that you cannot add the DR to a creature of the opposed alignment.

Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting you're nitpick, but based on what I read in the PFRPG appendix only the highest DR applies. If the creature could have DR10/evil and DR5/good then you'd use DR10/evil.

I think it's also fine to say something in the abyssal bloodline prevents them from summoning "angels."