D&D 5E (2024) No 5.5 AP Yet?

[Not a Decepticon]

Well my own hope would be that it means the days of the WotC "big dumb campaign book" are just over, because they're frankly poor products.

I never understood all the hate published campaigns get.

 

[dave2008]

So I generally have a low opinion of the 5E APs. Theres two very ood ones imho and a few good ones.

One year+ on though no AP yet.

Obviously it means D&D is doomed and WotC kicked my cat (not my avatar picture thats my nephew cat).

Generally I think theres been a massive uptick in product quality (core books, Faerun, FotA, Starter ser). No duds. Alot more player facing content of you count the Beyond "DLCs" (Netheril was a "dud"?).

Well, there is no 5.5e yet so I am hardly surprised there is no AP for it!

 

[Benjamin Olson]

I never understood all the hate published campaigns get.

Okay, well basically a lot of people buy them thinking a published campaign will make their DMing life easier, and ultimately feel like it has in fact been made harder by time they have unpacked a long and complicated WotC campaign, that often at least has parts that seem written more to be read than run. They often have large plot holes, inconsistencies, presumptions about player action, or other issues that people running them would feel compelled or at least inclined to fix, but are often not good about signposting what function various elements are serving in the larger plot so that you can freely modify them without reading the majority of the module beforehand.

Like many people I started published 5e modules with Lost Mine of Phandelver, which I would consider a model of WotC campaign writing at its best, it is clear, somewhat modular, simple, and short enough to fully digest and make my own, and although I add and make it my own there is no material I need or want to skip over from the base module. Following off of that the big dumb campaign books have been varying levels of disappointing. Usually I find usable parts, but harvesting them is work, and the books cost money.

In any case 5e D&D is really too much work to prep in general, and, for many of our brains at least, the big dumb campaign books do not really help and may in fact ultimately hinder. If they work well for your brain more power to you.

 

[Reynard]

Okay, well basically a lot of people buy them thinking a published campaign will make their DMing life easier, and ultimately feel like it has in fact been made harder by time they have unpacked a long and complicated WotC campaign, that often at least has parts that seem written more to be read than run. They often have large plot holes, inconsistencies, presumptions about player action, or other issues that people running them would feel compelled or at least inclined to fix, but are often not good about signposting what function various elements are serving in the larger plot so that you can freely modify them without reading the majority of the module beforehand.

Like many people I started published 5e modules with Lost Mine of Phandelver, which I would consider a model of WotC campaign writing at its best, it is clear, somewhat modular, simple, and short enough to fully digest and make my own, and although I add and make it my own there is no material I need or want to skip over from the base module. Following off of that the big dumb campaign books have been varying levels of disappointing. Usually I find usable parts, but harvesting them is work, and the books cost money.

In any case 5e D&D is really too much work to prep in general, and, for many of our brains at least, the big dumb campaign books do not really help and may in fact ultimately hinder. If they work well for your brain more power to you.

This whole post x10.

Many folks run effective campaigns with published WotC modules, but even so they end up fighting the thing more than using it. This is a problem with any published campaign, of course, because your table is your table. But both WotC and Paizo campaign length adventures bury the important information in walls of prose and fail to actually support the GM in the design -- both mechanical and graphical. There is a reason why every single WotC campaign and Paizo AP have tons of fan made support material out there.

 

[DragonLancer]

My experience is almost the complete opposite. Full fledged out campaigns from the likes of 2nd editions Night Below through to Pathfinder 1st ed's adventure paths are nothing short of excellent.

Plot holes I can give. Some certainly do but I find they are often more a case of "who thought of this?" rather than actual plot holes.

Presumptions of player behaviour/direction isn't a bad thing. This is where people get confused between railroad and linear. Because they are written the way they are, people think the whole story must be run in this way: A to B to C, with no detours. The truth is that this is the best way forward but it's left open for the open for the table to detour and double back all they want. The DM adapts according to the ideas and actions of the players. You just can't include all that in the published product.

Some of the best campaigns II have DMed or played have been Paizo's adventure paths. They aren't perfect but they great examples of how published campaigns (thinking more 1st ed here over 2nd) work.

 

[Reynard]

My experience is almost the complete opposite. Full fledged out campaigns from the likes of 2nd editions Night Below through to Pathfinder 1st ed's adventure paths are nothing short of excellent.

Plot holes I can give. Some certainly do but I find they are often more a case of "who thought of this?" rather than actual plot holes.

Presumptions of player behaviour/direction isn't a bad thing. This is where people get confused between railroad and linear. Because they are written the way they are, people think the whole story must be run in this way: A to B to C, with no detours. The truth is that this is the best way forward but it's left open for the open for the table to detour and double back all they want. The DM adapts according to the ideas and actions of the players. You just can't include all that in the published product.

Some of the best campaigns II have DMed or played have been Paizo's adventure paths. They aren't perfect but they great examples of how published campaigns (thinking more 1st ed here over 2nd) work.

How much work do you do to turn the average Paizo AP into something playable? Because in my experience, even when they are good, they are NOT written or designed to actually be used at the table.

 

[DragonLancer]

How much work do you do to turn the average Paizo AP into something playable? Because in my experience, even when they are good, they are NOT written or designed to actually be used at the table.

Barely anything if I'm honest. Everyone that I have run has been playable straight out of the pages.

If I may ask, what are the specific elements you feel aren't ready for the table play?

 

[Zardnaar]

How much work do you do to turn the average Paizo AP into something playable? Because in my experience, even when they are good, they are NOT written or designed to actually be used at the table.

Its usually the start thats fine imho.

 

[Zardnaar]

My experience is almost the complete opposite. Full fledged out campaigns from the likes of 2nd editions Night Below through to Pathfinder 1st ed's adventure paths are nothing short of excellent.

Plot holes I can give. Some certainly do but I find they are often more a case of "who thought of this?" rather than actual plot holes.

Presumptions of player behaviour/direction isn't a bad thing. This is where people get confused between railroad and linear. Because they are written the way they are, people think the whole story must be run in this way: A to B to C, with no detours. The truth is that this is the best way forward but it's left open for the open for the table to detour and double back all they want. The DM adapts according to the ideas and actions of the players. You just can't include all that in the published product.

Some of the best campaigns II have DMed or played have been Paizo's adventure paths. They aren't perfect but they great examples of how published campaigns (thinking more 1st ed here over 2nd) work.

APs are fine there's even some good ones.

5E ones in particular are kinda meh. Pt1 Night Below reminds me of LMoP, the Dungeon ones and Paizo are often good.

Makes WotCs efforts stand out more.