D&D 5E No 5e bashing, please!

[innerdude]

To respond to the OP, I think it's offensive to not "bash" 5e as well, for the same reasons. If the rules suck, say so. Don't mollycoddle us like children. Criticism now will mean a workable game system for another 20 years. Ideally, a decent system that allows the imagination to thrive and doesn't require computers (because our minds .....you shouldn't need to look up whether a "fire" spell sets the house on fire, it just should, period). ///sigh.

Here's the problem, the thing you're missing -- Rules only "suck" subjectively. Can rules be analyzed, and determined to OBJECTIVELY work or not work towards an intended aim? In most cases yes, but here's the problem --- whether or not you believe the "intended aim" is "worthy" is entirely an opinion of your own making. Rules "objectivity" can only be applied to whether it meets an intended aim, not whether the intended aim is something YOU care about.

Whether the intended aim has value is entirely dependent on the perspective of the person doing the analysis. Your opinion of "4e sucks" is not shared by a significant portion of the D&D-playing population. Why? Because they find that the intended aims of the rules are worthy.

Like Umbran, I currently have ZERO investment in the "D&D Horse Race" at the moment. I'm solidly in the camps of Savage Worlds, Fantasy Craft, the One Ring, and FATE as my current or potential systems to play. Yeah, I didn't particularly care for 4e either, but not liking something doesn't mean you can't couch discussions in language that can be respectful, and conducive to productive exchange.
[MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] and I have some fairly distinct differences in some of our GM-ing approaches, but I've had numerous discussions with him on these boards that have ultimately led me to being a better GM. Am I ever going to GM 4e the way he does? Not remotely, but I'd have lost the ability to gain some of those insights if I had written off everything pemerton says because he's a proponent of "that sucky 4e ruleset."

Call me crazy, but a hallmark of maturity is the ability to rationally express differences in view and opinion while maintaining civility.

 

[Morrus]

Right. I run a Classic Deadlands game. I play in a Star Wars Saga Edition game, a Dresden Files game, and maybe about to pick up a bit of Spirit of the Century. I play live-action games. In upcoming gamedays, it looks like I'm running a FATE-based game, and something GUMSHOE. Interestingly, I'm not involved in any 3e of 4e play at the moment.

But, clearly, I'm really strongly focused on 4e. I'm partisan. Sure. That sounds right.

Yeah, I haven't played any version of D&D in a couple of years, except one playtest session early last year. Does that mean I'm also strongly biased towards 4E and therefore responsible for someone else's rudeness?

(Ironically, I wasn't even particularly aware of said rudeness until the Gorgoroth went out of his way to tell me he was rude, and why it was my fault not his; it would probably have passed under my radar otherwise).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Would an asinine be the Borg donkey version of Seven of Nine?

Yes..yes, that must be so!

 

[billd91]

Would an asinine be the Borg donkey version of Seven of Nine?

Wait, I thought the naming convention was to call it the Tightsuit Donkeyborg.

 

[El Mahdi]

Thank You, Morrus and our moderation team. I see a distinct change for the better in the posting climate here already, because of this and the locking of a couple of problematic threads.

Thank You Very Much.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Wait, I thought the naming convention was to call it the Tightsuit Donkeyborg.

In 4Ed, yes, but not in one of the ST:tNG RPGs.

 

[Umbran]

In 4Ed, yes, but not in one of the ST:tNG RPGs.

Tightsuit Donkeyborg... of Nine?

 

[El Mahdi]

Tightsuit Donkeyborg... of Nine?

No. "..of Nine" is part of a designation, not a species.

What you're looking for is something like Eyeore of Five, Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Christopher-Robin.

Tightsuit Donkeyborg is the resultant assimilated version of species 5619 (right after Humans, species 5618). They are described in Borg archives as an artificial species wich possesses sentience only in the presence of adolescent Humans.

 

[pemerton]

pemerton and I have some fairly distinct differences in some of our GM-ing approaches, but I've had numerous discussions with him on these boards that have ultimately led me to being a better GM. Am I ever going to GM 4e the way he does? Not remotely, but I'd have lost the ability to gain some of those insights if I had written off everything pemerton says because he's a proponent of "that sucky 4e ruleset."

Thanks for the kind words.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

"I am Eeyoreus of Borg. Oh, brother, you're resisting still, even though it's futile, and you will be assimilated. *siiiiiighhhh*. I suppose we should have expected that. At least there's not been an influx of Species 8472 here as well...yet."