No armor penalty to reflex/touch-AC saves?

[Emirikol]

Just getting a feel of what's about to happen...so the saves and AC's will be in one "category." Instead of touch AC, there will be a reflex save.

..but it's not affected by armor? A stout halfling in full plate will have the same "touch-AC/Reflex" as a halfling rogue in clothes-only? This was completely missed in 3.5E because we had a seperate category (which was also unaffected by wearing 800lb's of gear)..but now there's a chance to think about this.

Has that been addressed? Thoughts?


Jh

 

[psionotic]

Interesting question... Presumably armors will still have maximum dexterity bonuses (although I don't think this has been confirmed) so on average, an unclothed halfling will have a better Reflex defense than an armored one. Not sure if they'll go beyond this or not, though.

 

[Emirikol]

I found the 3.x "max dex" limit's to be pretty irrelevant. If you were a tank, you only had a dex of +1 anyways. They are pretty much a formality, but don't actually affect anyone. Now, if the max dex penalty also affected your reflex save..that would be another matter..but I'm not sure how it could be made relevant.

Jh

 

[Wepwawet]

I found the 3.x "max dex" limit's to be pretty irrelevant. If you were a tank, you only had a dex of +1 anyways. They are pretty much a formality, but don't actually affect anyone. Now, if the max dex penalty also affected your reflex save..that would be another matter..but I'm not sure how it could be made relevant.

I always thought the max. dex. applied to everywhere you used the Dex. modifier. Therefore, Reflex saves.
That's the way I play, anyway.

A similar mecanism can be used in 4ed. Maybe armor can have penalties to Dex. related stuff...

 

[Shortman McLeod]

I always thought the max. dex. applied to everywhere you used the Dex. modifier. Therefore, Reflex saves.
That's the way I play, anyway.

Yep, you are correct, sir. Maximum dexterity modifier you are permitted to have, whatever you may do with it.

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

Yep, you are correct, sir. Maximum dexterity modifier you are permitted to have, whatever you may do with it.

Negative, Cap'n.

Maximum Dex Bonus

This number is the maximum Dexterity bonus to AC that this type of armor allows. Heavier armors limit mobility, reducing the wearer’s ability to dodge blows. This restriction doesn’t affect any other Dexterity-related abilities.

 

[Nebulous]

How could wearing plate mail gauntlets not hinder your lockpicking attempt? Or any other finely tuned activity like trying to balance on a narrow walkway?

 

[Qualidar]

How could wearing plate mail gauntlets not hinder your lockpicking attempt? Or any other finely tuned activity like trying to balance on a narrow walkway?

We need a new edition to fix these lame brain sacred cows!!

 

[Enforcer]

It does hinder balancing on a walkway, actually, assuming you're wearing the gauntlets as part of the full armor set. That's what the Armor Check Penalty is for...

As for lockpicking, so what? Gauntlets give a character very little tangible benefit (hooray, lethal 1d3 unarmed damage...) and a character in full plate who wants to pick locks (via cross-class skill points, a level in Rogue, or whatever) could easily just say, "yeah, I know my armor comes with free gauntlets, but I don't need 'em" if he's concerned with more "realism."

I actually play a Fighter in full plate who has a 14 Dex. It's for Reflex Saves, Initiative, and Combat Reflexes (and eventually Robilar's Gambit from PHB II). Also, I may go mithral one day...

I imagine in 4e that armor will impact the Reflex Defense in some manner, but I've seen no information one way or the other on the topic. We can't really use Star Wars Saga as a source, as 4e has four defenses while Star Wars has only three.

 

[BarkingDeathSquirrel]

I imagine in 4e that armor will impact the Reflex Defense in some manner, but I've seen no information one way or the other on the topic. We can't really use Star Wars Saga as a source, as 4e has four defenses while Star Wars has only three.

The impression I got with AC still being around was that it was basically your Reflex Defense plus your armor/shield/whatever, not an entirely different defense. They are listed separately for convenience. There are no touch attacks (or similar effects) in Saga Edition, so it wasn't necessary to separately list a Reflex with Armor and without...

*shrugs* Could be wrong, though.