D&D 5E No Cantrips Module

[The Crimson Binome]

The main goal of cantrips was to give a spellcaster some sort of default, no-resource attack that could keep it relevant next to the primary fighting classes. The obvious solution would be to give the mage something like the cleric's divine strike, to bring its weapon attacks up into the same range as cantrips.

 

[Kobold Stew]

It makes sense that an adventuring wizard with sharply limited combat magic would put a little time into mastering the basics of weapon and armor use.

I disagree that losing cantrips means you are sharply limited. That's sort of the point, isn't it?

You are not in a significantly worse position.

The mage cantrips have a variety of uses, but many of them are, I feel unobjectionable. I have seen no one complaining about too many light spells being cast, or of the horrible abuse associated ith mending.

Is perhaps the solution for the no cantrips module to just stop calling some things cantrips?

So let me revise my suggestion: if you got rid of cantrips, I would add

Class feature: Read Magic (as the spell).You are a wizard now boy, and so you can read magic.

Class feature: minor magics that are definitely not cantrippy:
Choose any two of the following, which you can use [INT] times/day:
a. Prestidigitation (as the spell).
b. Mending (as the spell).
c. Light (as the spell).

 

[tuxgeo]

Taking the suppositions seriously, here's this:

Better defensive magic. For example, "Shield" in 5E occupies a 1st-level spell slot but only lasts a single round. How bad is that? It's terrible. (In 3E, the "Shield" spell lasted a minute per level, which is far better.)

Maybe an illusion spell to make a mage appear to be a henchman, and therefore not worth targeting early?

Maybe an abjuration spell to deflect missile attacks?

Maybe more spell slots so those things can actually be used to replace the cantrips?

 

[Ichneumon]

A while back, I started trying to design a 'Magic User' D&D Next class that emulated the traditional Vancian caster. In place of cantrips, this class used extra casting slots, which the player assigned by choice. There were two subclasses, 'book casters' who used an attuned spellbook to gain their proficiency bonus, and 'free casters' who gained their bonus by casting with both hands.

It's currently in limbo, but I might plow forth and finish it if I get a motivation on.​

 

[Li Shenron]

Suppose 5E were to include a "no cantrips" module, which would replace at-will cantrips with (something). Casters who used this module would have no at-will spell options. All spells are per-day limited resources.

What do you think (something) should be?

The first thing that came to my mind is a bonus feat at first level (or the usual +1 to two ability scores).

After all, there already is a feat granting 2 cantrips + a 1st level spell once a day. Spellcasters get 2-3 cantrips each. So a feat is perhaps the safest choice for replacing cantrips.

 

[Gadget]

It seems to be that there are two camps or sub-camps in this area: those who don't like at-will casting period, and those who don't like at-will attack spells. The latter group does not have strong objects to mages using ghost sound or mending and the like. Some of the suggestions here about <stat> times per day are a nice limitation, but add book keeping and tracking that aren't worth the effort, IMHO. Many of the corner cases where such can possibly be considered abusive with repeated castings could be mitigated by the DM enforcing a short rest if necessary. Otherwise, I could see some class features that are made more prominent by removing cantrips: always read magic, a familiar, better and longer lasting first level defensive magic.

 

[keterys]

Cantrips are not very valuable. Ergo, you shouldn't get much for losing them. The main benefit is for spells like minor illusion and mage hand which are awesome from a roleplay perspective but could easily be handwaved some other way.

Of course, part of the problem may be that some people think they _are_ extraordinarily valuable, and thus think they're brokenly good. If that's the case, then if they're already broken then excise the brokenness and continue. The casters are balanced under the assumption that they primarily use their spell slots.

If you do give spellcasters a bonus feat at 1st (which no one else gets) or extra spell slots (especially if they scale by level), you could actually break spellcasting classes.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

It seems to be that there are two camps or sub-camps in this area: those who don't like at-will casting period, and those who don't like at-will attack spells. The latter group does not have strong objects to mages using ghost sound or mending and the like.

I find all at-will magic to be equally repugnant, but I recognize the attack cantrips as a game-balance issue, where the exploration cantrips are just a playstyle thing. The former is something that really should be addressed with any sort of no-cantrip module.

 

[Dausuul]

The first thing that came to my mind is a bonus feat at first level (or the usual +1 to two ability scores).

After all, there already is a feat granting 2 cantrips + a 1st level spell once a day. Spellcasters get 2-3 cantrips each. So a feat is perhaps the safest choice for replacing cantrips.

Hmm. The more I think about this idea, the more I like it. It's simple and clean. If you want to use it to get better weapon proficiencies, or to boost your Dexterity for better crossbow attack and damage, you can do that. If you just want to boost your Int or learn an extra wizard feat, you can do that too.

 

[I'm A Banana]

So I think "just pretend they don't exist!" or "Just limit them!" are probably not the most useful suggestions, because that's basically saying "make your character suck more, it'll be fine!"

How much those things contribute is probably open to some debate, but if we want to give spellcasters something that is equal to the most powerful cantrip, what's that look like?

I'm not sure that "extra spell slots" are a great solution. But they might be worth a feat or so. Maybe spellcasters can get a metamagic or item creation feat in exchange? Or, maybe a familiar, since that no longer comes with your caste automatically.

Giving up ghost hand for a pet cat seems about fair to me.